[Poll] When do you think the next NSR buyback will occur?


#1

With a total money supply of only 173,000 US-NBT, there is little room for the money supply to decrease further. We have already raised about $600,000 since July. We only need an additional $69,000 to fill our tier 1 to tier 4 reserves to their mandated level, after which additional sales of US-NBT or CN-NBT will go to NuShare buybacks, less additional reserves requirements (a little less than 50%) and expenses going forward.

Question: When do you think the next NuShare buyback is most likely to occur?

  • less than one week from now
  • between a week and a month from now
  • between a month and four months from now
  • between four months and twelve months from now
  • more than a year from now
  • NuShare buybacks will never happen again

0 voters


[Poll] When do you think the next NuShare buyback will happen?
Backbone Reserve Operations (Tier 6)
#2

I think it is most likely to happen exactly when you want it to. We haven’t failed to notice that you are now the majority shareholder of NSR.


#3

Well, let’s think about my options regarding controlling when the next NSR buybacks are. It turns out they are exactly the same as every other person on the planet. Owning NuShares doesn’t permit one to start NSR buybacks. Only money entering the system can do that. So, I could indeed get NSR buybacks started tomorrow if I bought 70,000 US-NBT today. However, literally anyone on the planet doing the same thing would have the same affect.

Nu is transparent and accessible to all. As a reminder, there are about 400 million NSR minting right now, yet there are more than 600 million NSR for sale right now on Poloniex, most of which is offered at historically low price levels. This means anyone can easily take control of the network by purchasing these publicly available NuShares. Anyone who pays for NuShares gets representation on the blockchain.

It seems like there are a lot of people here that want to control the direction of the network for free. The basic architecture (proof of stake) prohibits control of the network for free for good reasons.


#4

I have an issue with your statement which you keep on repeating and is not based on facts. It has been proven incorrect in the past and I don’t see any reason why it would change any time soon. Not as long you own the majority of the shares and keep on printing them. It is about owning not about minting after all. There are over 2 billion shares. Just educating some here. So no controllable shares possible with 600m. Not a chance to own even a decent stake without being diluted in the weeks thereafter as the majority shareholder can easily print even more shares in their control. Just be clear and honest here.

So with that out of the way please give me one solid reason why I would buy any share and even lose more money besides just a gamble that there is a greater fool than me so I can sell with next share buyback. Is this poll going to help you achieve that? It looks more like that you are only extracting money from Shareholders most likely reducing your own losses and we both know there is an end to that. It is time for a decent business plan (with the new coins) or just wrap up and close the business forever. Please make your choice and provide a transparent way to achieve either way and communicate that with the few remaining shareholders including myself still here. They are asking, no, almost begging you. What is so hard about this?


#5

@Cybnate there are too many factual errors in your post for me to address individually. However, it seems to me that what has happened is that you lost money on your investment due to the Augeas default, and you are upset. That is understandable. It is human nature that you would look for a cause and someone to blame. You value the community here, so the explanation that Augeas continues to present destructive behavior is not to your liking. You and others don’t like the fact that I have replaced your former role in the community. It seems like I have a lot of power and control. So you blame me. But you can’t produce a logical reason to blame me: it just feels good, that is all you know about blaming me.

There has often been the claim that I am a majority shareholder. This is really quite ridiculous when examined logically. Let us imagine that someone was a majority shareholder before the Augeas default, although there is no evidence to support that. Since then the circulating NuShare supply has tripled, so to maintain this majority shareholder status, at least 800 million NSR must be purchased. There’s no evidence any single buyer has done such a thing. But suppose they did. Would they not be properly entitled to control the direction of the network? Why would our organization choose to vilify someone who would have done more than everyone else combined to fund our project? Such a person should be regarded as our hero, our angel investor.

The bottom line is there are a lot of people who seem to feel entitled to control the network without buying NuShares. There are also a lot of people who are mad about their financial losses and facing the reality that the source of the loss is the lawlessness and unprofessional actions of this community is not something consistent with their emotional need to be a part of the community as it was more than 6 months ago. So, we see a lot of very vague accusations of serious misconduct, except no one can say what the misconduct actually is, like this:

Please explain how I’ve extracted money from shareholders to reduce my losses. You can’t even begin to describe how that would occur. You are just mad that you lost money and that the community you enjoyed being a part of now has no purpose or place. As I recall only 5% of minting shareholders supported your last decentralized liquidity provision proposal. That isn’t just me opposing it. Obviously, there is very broad consensus among shareholders that decentralized liquidity operations have been a failure at the current scale. Shareholders recognize there are not enough competent and dedicated people involved to decentralize operations at all right now. That is an effort we will need to revisit when our market cap is 20 million dollars or more. It is ironic that the very people crying here about a lack of decentralization are the very people who have done the most to make less decentralization necessary.

What matters right now is meeting our customers’ needs so that we can grow. People need to know that we aren’t going to cheat them by abandoning the peg. It appears that empowering me is the best way shareholders could find to bring stability, continuity and confidence in our trustworthiness. Shareholders have spoken. Decentralization is not their priority. Customer service, stability and building confidence in our peg while cutting ongoing expenses seem to be shareholders’ values.

People still are having a lot of trouble understanding what a NuShare is. It is among other things, the most volatile crypto. One of its purposes is to accept the volatility the market wants to impose on NuBits. That means when there is a currency demand contraction, we will see an outsized depressive affect on the price. Conversely, when the currency supply expands, it will become a powerful factor in creating a NuShare bull market. With the outstanding currency already having dropped from 820,000 to about 173,000, we can say with certainty that NSR sales resulting from currency supply contraction can’t go much further: it can’t go below zero. Certainly most of the current contraction is behind us. In fact, we know for certain there is at most (173,000 / 820,000 = 0.211) 21% of this NSR dilution ahead of us. But it could also end today.

Also, consider the strength that NuShare buybacks will have at 24 satoshis. Let’s imagine in the short term we could only bring the currency supply back to half of what it was: 410,000. That would be an inflow of about $237,000. We only need about $170,000 to meet our T1 to T4 reserve at that level. That would leave $67,000 less any money spent going forward for NSR buybacks. With a market cap of only around $270,000, that is going to have a very powerful affect. But what if we brought the total NuBit supply to 2 million USD with the help of Chinese NuBits? You would get an outstanding return on any NuShare purchase you made now.

So, let’s get to selling our product and put an end to the unprofessional behavior we have seen here recently. Once again, more than anything in recent months I have been amazed at the self-defeating behavior displayed here.


#6

I could ask for the factual errors, but I’m not really interested in your point of view regarding purported factual errors. We obviously have different points of view.
I don’t want to waste your and my valuable time, so I only ask these questions.

Why don’t you address at least this point?

Is that a factual error as well?
Without a business plan, what’s the point of selling your product?


#7

(I have slept terribly. Parts of this may be stupid and incorrect, but I rather handle that and correct it later to get my thoughts out for discussion now.)

Why is that? You mean the majority owner would put up more of their shares to vote?

If additional bonuses keep being passed without reason, yes. That should bring confidence in Nu down and how would one benefit from that? Who’s buying the shares? Either @Phoenix is supporting the NuShare or somebody else is. If he’s printing shares and selling them to himself, what’s wrong with that? Of course, the price is easier to dictate, but the alternative is that Nu dies.

NuShares are granted to @Phoenix by shareholders (whoever they are). Those are then sold at an exchange, and the Bitcoins are used to buy back NuBits. Looking at the NuShares granted compared to the NuBits taken off market should reveal whether NuShares sale proceeds have been stolen, no? Without trading logs we don’t get the exact exchange rates, but is there playroom enough to steal a significant amount there? Help me understand this. I could be wrong, but after repeated requests nobody has proven it to me.

To get Bitcoins out of this, wouldn’t you need to own NuBits and simply keep consuming our buy walls? Have any NuBits owned by Nu been stolen? Where in the process can printed NuShares be sold and the proceeds stolen?

I might be using the number incorrectly and haven’t confirmed it.

Bitcoin was between $232 and $487 in that timeframe, and $531 to $774 since June 2016. Let’s say @Phoenix was the only one selling into the buybacks, that nets …

564.3 * 232 = 130,917.6
564.3 * 487 = 274,814.1
564.3 * 531 = 299,643.3
564.3 * 774 = 436,768.2

A lot of US NuBits have been bought back. How many?

646,595 US-NBT (Edit: corrected number). How many were bought back below $1.00? I’m sure you believe some other investors have supported Nu in this time, of course. How much do you think?


Safety of NuBits currently?
Safety of NuBits currently?
#8

Yes, that is what I’m referring to. With 2b+ share you need 1b+ to have a controllable share. Phoenix is imo dishonest here advertising that 600m would be a controlling stake.

I’m asking why I should buy shares right now. I suppose Phoenix is holding up the facade by printing and buying shares himself or giving them away in an effort to make NSR liquid. But this works contraproductive for other shareholders as they only see continuous dilution, no chance to even keep value let alone have a chance to increase value over time. You will need a sustainable income source for that as many including myself have already advocated for.

I’m not that concerned about coins being stolen in the last few months. Technically you could I believe given the amount of NSR liquidity created and the fluctuations in price. But wiith the downwards spiral I believe it would be tough to make significant amounts of money out of it. I might be wrong.
.[quote=“jooize, post:7, topic:4756”]

Have any NuBits owned by Nu been stolen?
[/quote]
No evidence of that, but it is interesting that all NBT suddenly needs to be transferred to Phoenix. It strikes me as odd, Phoenix trying to reduce risk that someone might sell the large amounts of NBT locked up? I can only guess…

Initially I bought some NSR to counter the dilution as a result of the peg loss. I’ve always supported restoring the peg one way or the other, a few others seeing a bargain might have been with me. But since the silly giveaways and the out of the ordinary “meant to be funny?” behaviours I’m sure any buying appetite for NSR quickly dried up by everyone and it is now left floundering. This will not change until there is a sustainable business model which restores the confidence that a peg can be held over time. That doesn’t include buybacks from reserves required to keep a peg.

I think I’m repeating myself but it won’t hurt to go back to core of the problem as I believe it can only be resolved there. definitely not by doing the same we have been doing in the past.


#9

Well I never printed NSR, kept NSR or sold NSR on behalf of the shareholders.
The only thing I did was providing some infrastructure for decentralised liquidity. You are not doing any of that.
When it became clear that this was too expensive I briefly helped out with some gateways trading NBT and BTC. This has been 100% transparent and most, if not all logs have been published contrary to your role.

So replaced my role in the community is just one of the many factual errors you are making.

I expect more from a hero than just taking over the helm, kick everyone out and than say they are the best. A hero makes the community/shareholders happy, but may be there is a cultural difference here.

Quite simple by printing NSR and diluting existing shareholders and then selling or giving them away.

You will need to obtain confidence before you sell anything. I supported the creation of new currencies. But who in their right mind would buy 100s of thousands of a stable currency from a loner with no sustainable business model. I know the crypto market is in its infancy and people can be easily deceived but I hope you are not counting on that. I’m all for making money, but it has to be something people want to buy and can have confidence in. Not some pump and dump buyback scheme. I fail to see something different, and you are still incapable of explaining in two sentences how you are going to sell NSR, NBT or new currencies and what your marketing message is.

Is it strange or unprofessional I’m questioning you having invested US$10k+ which is now not even worth a quarter of that? I appreciate your response and your outlook about the dilution, but I’m still missing some crucial answers regarding the selling and profitability of any product.

This.


#10

To be honest it s difficult to deny the fact that phoenix s strategy was successful in protecting the peg so far.
At the same time it is difficult to ignore the fact that his strategy made the share price of nsr to plummet.
As a consequence his strategy made most shareholders angry and has considerably damaged the core of the community and the heart of the DAC.
The future is uncertain.
There is a chance that new comers will find nubits attractive and use it for real.
In that case new shareholders will come.
If not, this would be the end of Nu and the strategy of phoenix would have been a failure over the longterm.


#11

That damage was not done by the plummeted NSR rate, but by JordanLeePhoenix’ behaviour.

Because the Chief has no plan besides “selling products”, which won’t create revenue.

That won’t attract shareholders. Revenue and ROI will. Alas, it’s not in sight.

It already is a failure, because it’s no strategy to save Nu. It’s a tactical move to not let Nu die now.


#12

The poll has been closed. Now for the fun part. Over time, we get to discover who was right. When the poll was released, we had $68,700 that needed to enter the network (not including additional reserve requirements and any future spending) before funds would begin to go NuShare buybacks.

Today this important figure has fallen to $64,500.


#13

I have zero interest in buying NSR because the more I buy, the more debt of mine. Who will buy shares of a money losing company?

Nu’s equity is negative, even if someone gives me 1 billion NSR for free, I will reject it.


#14

The latest reserve equilibrium calculation shows that at $57,800 short, we continue our movement toward equilibrium, which is the dividing line between NSR sales and NSR buybacks. At this rate of decline, the correct poll response would prove to be one to four months. However, there is no reason to think the trend will persist. It can move either direction very quickly.

The movement toward equilibrium occurred mostly as a result of lower reserve requirements due to lower amounts of circulating currency. In Nu’s current circumstances, for every NuBit pulled out of circulation it reduces our tier 1 to tier 4 reserve requirements by 0.48. Therefore, reducing the currency supply is one way of reaching equilibrium. It is the painful method, involving NSR sales and dilution of shareholders. The preferred method is to increase the currency in circulation. These inflows move Nu toward reserve equilibrium in a painless manner.


#15

The latest reserve equilibrium calculation shows that we are now $55,137 short of equilibrium. The trend in the reserve level and its relation to the reserve equilibrium certainly doesn’t favor the majority view point in this poll that NSR buybacks will never happen again. They will begin when and if the reserve level becomes elevated relative to the equilibrium level. In other words, when the charted figure becomes positive. Consistent progress toward that is being made.


#16

So how much did you sell nsr for this week? If it was equal to the trend in reserve level (hint, it was) then that is perfectly in line with the statement that buybacks will never occur. If the only income source is selling nsr, then unless you’re selling nsr to buy nsr (a clearly lossy process) then as the reserve deficit trends to 0 it must slow down to a grinding halt. Basically, this ‘growth’ is not real growth, it is simply a continuing liquidation of Nu. There is no way that just the act of liquidation can lead to buy backs. Product demand and profit are a necessity, something you are entirely leaving out of your analysis.


#17

NSR sales can, by themselves, completely restore equilibrium. It is true, as you have noted, that NSR sales cannot produce NSR buybacks in the most direct sense. Once equilibrium is restored though, the very next dollar of currency sales can and will be used for NSR buybacks, which are, as always, subject to additional reserve requirements and spending, such as on development.

With the currency supply down to below 20% of its maximum before the Augeas default and park rates rising currently, it shouldn’t be hard to stimulate a little demand. As we begin to build market share once again, our deep liquidity at a tight spread combined with high yield from park rates makes NuBits preferable to competing alternatives.

However, marketing is beyond the scope of my responsibilities as Chief of Liquidity Operations. As you may be aware, there was a marketing effort lead by @tomjoad prior to the Augeas default. Shareholders ought to be attentive to the need for marketing.


#18

@tomjoad made his thoughts and status known in a post earlier this year.

My takeaway is that he will not be contributing to the project any further.


#19

Just so we’re clear, assume were perfectly balanced. Then someone buys 1 nbt. You then buy nsr with the btc. Then tomorrow they sell 1 nbt. You then sell nsr. Of course, it is far more likely that you buy and sell the nsr at a negative spread. So who pays for that spread? Of course, the nsr price does. Id like to point out that this is a textbook balance sheet attack. By not having a liquidity buffer, such that 1 nbt purchase and sale will not result in buyback followed by dilution, you are making Nu extemely succeptible to these sorts of attacks.


#20

The latest reserve equilibrium calculation shows that we are $47,591 short of equilibrium. Notice that each and every week we have moved closer to equilibrium. The model doesn’t guarantee that consistent movement, but it certainly is a strong and enduring tendency of our model, regardless of whether total NuBits in circulation rise or fall. When the total currency supply rises, the movement toward equilibrium is painless, whereas when the total currency supply falls, we get closer to equilibrium with painful NSR sales. Either way, the model properly ensures a strong but gentle tendency toward equilibrium.

The data certainly don’t favor the consensus view of the poll that NSR buybacks will never occur again.

All it would take to begin NSR buybacks and halt NSR sales would be a mere $48,000 in currency sales at the present time (this figure is dynamic and will quickly become outdated).

Let’s focus on what we can do to increase the circulating currency supply for the win!