In the last two days Jordan has publicly expressed support for NSR-for-NBT burning multiple times, including the post immediately preceding yours. I don’t see how he is ignoring the issue at all.
I agree that the issue hasn’t been ignored but, in light of the initial B&C funding failing to hit the 200k target, is now the time to have this discussion?
Park rates do need to be adjusted upwards to maintain the peg in the short term but I’m in agreement with @creon that a burn needs to happen sooner rather than later.
Jordan should sell nsr on the open market to burn nbt in my opinion. I’ll grudgingly raise my rates some (I’m currently @ ~10% and will go to 15%) but park rates are NOT our method for short term peg maintenance, burns are. Park and distributions are midterm peg maintanence.
Whether it is temporary depends on a couple variables. One is the question of whether BKS are sold or not. The other is change in the level of NBT demand over the next six months. If BKS are sold that will certainly support the buy side because NBT will be purchased with BKS sale proceeds. All other things being equal, this is indeed temporary as you say and will reverse as contributors are paid NuBits and they sell them. However, it is unlikely that that all other things will remain equal over a six month period. NuBit demand is only a fraction of what it was before the exchange defaults in February. It is likely that demand will increase as NuBits become more popular on our new exchanges, just as they increased in popularity on BTER, CCEDK and Excoin when they were functioning normally. If this scenario plays out, the lack of buy support is indeed temporary and NBT burning is unnecessary. Alternatively, NBT could be burned now and if demand does indeed increase in the coming months, NSR buybacks and burns could be performed. Both are reasonable approaches to the situation. If you prefer the later, you should propose a motion to do it.
Create a motion to do it. Refusing to raise park rates while doing nothing is irresponsible. I had planned to resolve the situation with the auction that concluded yesterday, but that didn’t work out. I plan to remedy the situation with a BKS sale and park rates in the interim. Remedying it with a separate NSR auction is certainly a reasonable option. Everyone is empowered to propose such an action. However, even in that case, park rates must be raised until the NSR sale and NBT burn can take place. I still don’t see any plan that would not require rates to be raised right now.
I doubt others feel I am ignoring other options proposed (I haven’t seen any), but it seems like you have an expectation that I raise a motion on behalf of others. That is unnecessary because others are just as empowered to raise a motion as I am. You seem to be attributing some special authority to me that just isn’t there. I’m not enforcing anything in regard to park rates. I am trying to make shareholders aware of the risks as I see them.
We can’t accurately predict at what rates people will park. However, I had in mind that 25,000 NBT could be parked for three months at 16% annually. That would cost 1000 NBT.
Roughly starting from here there were discussion about increased spread for 3-4 days. You actually started the discussion from a post somewhere before the one in the link. I would like to hear what you think.
Related to spread, there is a question directly to you regarding potential PEGs that would want to buy Nubits from the reserve fund. Could you please answer it (in that thread) ?
At risk of pulling the thread off topic, I think experimentation with spreads is healthy to see how the market reacts. Wider spreads lower the quality of our product, but it also lowers or eliminates the cost of liquidity. I hope to see people offer NuBits at payment processors without shareholder compensation at spreads that are profitable without additional compensation.
Various spread systems which encourage buy support, volume dependent transaction fees, trustless NSR burning without grants, or a different dividend system that encourages holding the share continuously are just some examples. We need your expertise when discussing those topics, since you are by far the person with the most knowledge about these systems. There are many interesting discussions about revenue models and buy incentives and everyone would love to hear your opinion on the technichal feasibility and economical aspects.
And I am saying for weeks that I am not convinced by the sustainability of the peg with our current strategy and I even wanted an NSR sale if the B&C auction would have been successful. This is the reason why I don’t want to be an LPC right now, and other LPCs might get to the same result in their calculations. With my wish to dilute NSR to destroy NBT I am certainly not speaking for all other shareholders here, and to my surprise this is the first time here in this thread that I see others who also want to reduce the liability first before providing people with an offer to lock up NBT.
And we don’t need a motion for this. We need someone who applies for a NSR grant and simply burns NBT in exchange. There is no need to make a blind auction here. If NSR grants are still not avilable (I guess they will be soon when looking at the tracker), you could simulate it by sending the NSR to the grant recipient who then applies for an 1 NBT grant.
I am happy (maybe together with @Ben) to create a template NSR grant proposal with an explanation how to burn NBT and how to proof it afterwards. We also should make a price recommendation, I guess something around the 0.2 cents you proposed in your auction would be a good starting point.
EDIT: And maybe just to calm people down: My park rate configuration won’t have much effect on the overall park rates. I bought all my NSR from the open market and I am not a rich person. My posts here in this forum surely have a much larger staking weight than my coins.
Right. I made a mistake between additional parked nubits and already parked nubits.
A possible scenario (the one that you have probably in mind):
- current sell side: 66k, current buy side:32k.
- getting 25k of that sell side parked would reduce sell side to 41k, which would relatively close to 32k.
- if we want to freeze those 25k for 3 months for a cost of 1k per month, that would correspond to 4% for 3 months, therefore 16% annually.
By the way, i have currently put my 3m rate to 17%.
Grudgingly I have increased the park rates in my datafeed as any other actions will take a bit of time. However we should start burning before the premium on it will be too high (or no one is interested) and consequently rates will need to be increased even further. I consider rates for longer than a few weeks on or above 10% not healthy at all. I recognise that we have a challenging situation with a failed auction and another auction which will continue to hold the NSR price which is also our leverage, hostage. Will support this burn proposal by @nagalim when turned into a motion or any similar proposal when presented for voting.
My new rates will be:
7.5% for 22.8 days (still encouraging longer terms)
10% for 1.5 Months
10% for 3 months
7.5% for 6 months
25,000 additionally parked NBT will not directly translate into a reduced sell side liquidity of 25k and even less translates into an increased buy side liquidity of 25k, since also people who would hold their NBT anyway are incentivised to park their NBT. So its only a part of the newly parked NBT that will add up on the buy side liquidity.
A calculable method would be great. Our target is to increase the buy side liquidity by 25k over the next three months using a one time action now (parking/burn). This would correspond to printing 10 million NSR assuming we could sell them at 0.25 cent. So even if we do not get this price, it will be something around 15 million NSR. That’s pretty calculable.
And parking? We don’t have any data. Before making any statement about the effect a 1% parking rate increase has on the amount of parked NBT, given the current liquidity, we need to parse the blockchain for this information. Do we already have scripts for that? We ideally need a visualization of the parking rates and the amount of parked NBT over time. Then we can make an estimate what kind of interest rate increase we need to offer to encourage our 25k target for three months.
As mentioned earlier, if we add 10k right now through a NSR sale then adding the other 15k through parking rates will be much easier, because people see an offer they are willing to take considering the current liquidity. Nobody wants to park 10,000 NBT for 3 months if the current buy side liquidity is close to nothing.
You seem to ignore those who buy into NBT just to park it for the interest – the carry traders.
You are right. We need charts to show park rates and the amount of nubits being parked.
I’m not ignoring them I just say that parked NBT > bought NBT. Of course we want to address the people you are describing with our offer.
I see that auction motions don’t usually state some specifics that decide things like starting bid / reserve prices. People may agree with an auction but disagree with some pricing issues. Would it be good practice to include some pricing constraints in auction motions?
[quote=“creon”]Nobody wants to park 10,000 NBT for 3 months if the current buy side liquidity is close to nothing.
Yes, if shareholders don’t use the tools at their disposal to balance liquidity then they must pay more for liquidity to compensate for the extra risk.
What is needed now is a broad recognition and acknowledgement that shareholders have in fact mismanaged liquidity in recent weeks. We know this because liquidity remained unbalanced while rates remained flat.
Our market cap is dropping right now. It is a painful reminder that the system is working exactly as designed: When shareholders refuse to provide robust liquidity and peg support, they lose equity.
I will be advancing a motion shortly for a very quick NSR sale and NBT burn to compensate for the recent shareholder mismanagement of park rates.
@Nagalim almost completed a very appealing motion for this here: [Voting] NBT burn / NSR sale
Since no more comments were made in this thread I would suggest to hash it so we can get this done.
Buy side is 27k and sell side is 71k, liquidity wise. More and more unbalanced although rates are high.
We need to buy back and burn nbt by selling nsrs otherwise the peg will be endangered.
Whenever BTC prices goes up people dump NBT into the buy wall. The fundamental way to avoid buy side’s being close to zero is not letting hedging (of BTC/USD price) dominate NBT volume. For example mostly offering NBT/fiat and capping NBT/BTC, and selling most NBT through PEGs.
If we let hedging dominate NBT volume, we will have to operate (such as auction and move NBT in and out of parking) as quickly as BTC price changes, forever. Such frequent operation adds risk and cost.