the nbt/btc pair gets a lot of movement! i think we should raise the ask/bid limits of ALP from 1500 to 2500 maybe
since they are empty oftenly and not quickly refilled!
edit: actually cryptsy has become the #2 in volume!
1 Poloniex NBT/BTC $ 62,455 $ 0.998773 93.81 % Recently
2 Cryptsy NBT/BTC $ 1,714 $ 0.990470 2.57 % Recently
I’m a Bitcoin miner in the US and decided to start using NBT as a hedge against BTC price swings - I typically sell my mined coins near the end of the month.
What I’m trying to do now is purchase NBT on a semi-daily basis which gives me a suitable lock. I’m using Cryptsy for this, as I’m (slightly) more comfortable using Cryptsy over Poloniex.
I’m crushing the wall on Cryptsy just trying to buy even a portion of the NBT I want (approximately $75k per month is my target at this time, but would like to take that much higher with some confidence).
My question is - will the volume of liquidity improve over time? Should I become a liquidity provider (to myself?). When it comes time to sell this NBT will I be stuck with it?
Thanks
Dave
75k/month is a lot, but of course we’d love to help you, so stick with me here. You clearly state the biggest concern: we want to have that money ready for you when you cash out. To achieve this, what we need to do is pump up our NSR marketcap and burn some NSR by buying them on the open market. That way, when it comes time for you to sell we should either have expanded operation to the point where that’s not an issue or we can just do the reverse of the process on the way back down. The absolute best way to do all this would be to spread it out over a long time. There’s an interesting motion up for vote right now:
[Passed] Motion to begin NSR buyback immediately
This motion gives @tomjoad the ability to start buying NSR back on the open market as the NBT price grows. Ideally, we would want to link you in somehow with an operation like this. There are other threads discussing the holding of Nu Reserve funds via multisig (what we call ‘tier 4’):
Three roles that need to be filled by shareholders
There are other projects that make the flow between NBT and NSR easier, like my seeded auction project in which Nu holds auctions that act as burn gateways between NBT and NSR and gives more liquidity all around.
Your absolute best exit strategy for Nu will be to sell your NBT over time like you are doing while you buy it. You can also make a deal with us to burn the NBT for whatever reward you think we can satisfy when the time comes, as you are doing now when trying to buy. Remember that you can always propose a grant yourself. For example, if you posted a motion hash that said “I will burn x NSR if Nu promises to grant me y NBT” you might be able to get it passed depending on the ratio of x:y.
I’m not really an official person, I’m somewhat imaginary. @JordanLee would probably be the most official face we have around these parts and should most likely weigh in on any deal of this magnitude, especially if we decide to take it to tier 4.
I’m open to acting as a liquidity provider of some sort. In my experimentation with Cryptsy I find that I’m paying about 3% premium to buy these locks. If I incur another 3% premium on the way back to BTC (which I then sell for USD), or if I go from NBT direct to USD on Cryptsy (which I don’t trust as much), then I have to consider whether 6% premium is worth the downside protection against BTC volatility (considering I lose the upside potential).
I have other business intentions to use NBT but I need to know that I can acquire them as I need them and liquidate as well. I thought the bot system would provide this, but even now Cryptsy’s sell wall hasn’t been replenished - its been hours since I bought the wall.
Have you checked out ALP? If you provide liquidity, you will be paid NBT by a pool operator. Nu tends to print ~10 kNBT/month that goes into these liquidity operations. If you start filling pools the operators should respond by increasing targets. This is a brand new pool operation, run by @nmei, and is still in its first term. Currently a term is about 1 month. At the end of a term the pool operator will propose new targets or strategies for the pool. We’ve been talking about alternative pool methods that allow for unlimited targets and may implement them soon. Liquidity provision (LP) is a great way to get in and help us expand operation, wonderful idea.
To participate in NuRiver, just follow the instructions in the original post. (NuRiver Pool on Cryptsy for NBT/USD & NBT/BTC)
@Nagalim has already explained it very well.
My post is rather directed to NSR holders:
Wake up!
This would be totally no issue if Nu had fixed total payout pools and seeded auctions.
@buzzdave (or anybody else) could drain the liquidity on one side (or the other - whether NBT get bought or sold) and liquidity providers would gladly refill it getting the required resources from the Nu network in change for what is in abundance by participating in seeded auctions.
The speed would be limited, but at least it would work mostly automatic fueled by financial incentives!
The market is dynamic. Inflating or deflating NBT supply doesn’t match that dynamic as much as it could and should.
Nu has all that is required for improving it.
It just needs to happen!
Yes NBT is an excellent and easy way for locking price when your business is price sensitive, but it needs to support much higher volumes. Back when BTC looked like a high flyer (so long ago…) everybody was a holder. After maturing my business quite a bit, its clear to me now that a large scale miner simply cannot take the risk of riding BTC price. I’ve experimented with selling futures, but easiest of all would be an automated API with which I could place my BTC as I mine them, converting to NBT, such as through Shapeshift. They have limits which are too restrictive.
I will look into ALP and see if it makes sense. The Nu community is creating so much good stuff so quickly its been hard to keep up with you guys!
Dave
It still would be a little bit of an issue because NuRiver is new here and so is buzzdave, and buzzdave would prefer to only use cryptsy. Ideally, we want to trust them both more and more over time to provide a good solid supply of money. That has to be recognized by shareholders (or auction participants or whoever) and the ramping up process will take time to pass on the blockchain. Even with fixed cost, there’s still a concept of how much Nu trusts and supports any given liquidity pool.
@buzzdave I think it will be really impressive when we have B&C exchange up and running. There will be a huge amount of potential for automation with the reputed signer structure and it has a lot of the same community as Nu because of the manner in which we forked. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0
I’m not so new here, but I’m very busy so not active on the forum. I’m a large shareholder in Nu and have made some attempts at working as an LP in the past.
Still just looking for a good fit to my business that also helps Nu. I think the daily volume in NBT could easily be 100’s of thousands very quickly as hedgers incorporate it into their business. I’m not unwilling to try these other sources - Cryptsy is by no means my preferred exchange.
Looking forward to B&C very much as well. I hope to be a trusted signer as well if it makes sense for the community.
I agree it’s desirable for our network to increase its liquidity capacity, and I think we’re gradually getting there. The challenge is that if our total supply of NBT in circulation is ~500,000 NBT, and daily liquidity is 100,000 NBT, it’s still too small of a currency to support one-time 75,000 NBT purchases/sells.
The good news is that our liquidity pools are growing, NBT demand is growing, and we are getting added to larger exchanges every month. The network will eventually get to the point where it can handle your volume without issue. We’re definitely glad to have NBT users like you in our community as a shareholder, as you have some of the best insights into how we should grow our operation.
Something’s wrong with my bot:
2015/09/23-09:04:32 INFO: starting PyBot for btc on cryptsy
2015/09/23-09:04:35 INFO: successfully deleted all orders for btc on cryptsy
2015/09/23-09:04:36 INFO: waiting 8.90 seconds to synchronize with other trading bots for btc on cryptsy
2015/09/23-09:04:48 ERROR: unable to place bid btc order of "X" nbt at 0.00431205 on cryptsy: Insufficient BTC in account to complete this order.
2015/09/23-09:05:23 ERROR: unable to place bid btc order of "X" nbt at 0.00431205 on cryptsy: Insufficient BTC in account to complete this order.
2015/09/23-09:05:32 INFO: cryptsy - balance: 0.00000000 rate: 0.00% ppm: 0.00000000 efficiency: 0.00% rejects: 0 missings: 0 - APIKEYIf I multiply the “X” NBT with 0.00431205 the result is exactly the amount I have in my cryptsy BTC “available balance”.
Is this is bug of the bot or a cryptsy API bug?
@nmei do you have any idea?
I don’t know how this information is retrieved, but https://raw.nupool.net/nubits/ shows 0 ask orders - but there’s something on the bid side; why does my bot not want to place orders?
edit: since when does cryptsy have these withdraw fees:
WD Fee: 0.00100000 BTC + 0.50% BTC
That sucks!
The Cryptsy API has a strange ‘feature’. For placing bid orders (and only bid orders) you have to subtract the fees from the amount to place on order before placing the order. The log output of the bot doesn’t reflect this accurately so the maths appears to make sense when looking at the log. I’ll take a look at this later. i did put a work around in to gather the fees from the api before placing the order. I wonder if that call is failing?
Thank you. It’s very strange. I just realized that for at least one bot placing bid orders works
Ask order target 0 NBT filled of maximum 1500 NBT ( 0% )
Bid order target 487.95 NBT filled of maximum 1500 NBT ( 32.53% )i have exactly the same problem started yesterday! so many days before was fine!
Sounds like something changed with the Cryptsy API. I’ll investigate
It queries server ip /exchanges and does the math.
It queries e.g. http://nbt.liquidbits.net/status, right?
Ah!
So I can look at e.g. http://45.55.43.33:3334/status or http://45.55.43.33:3333/status to have the NuRiver server status…