@sigmike I appreciate your response. @jooize, roughly 45,000 dollars have been paid to contractors during April and May alone. Is it possible to get some more information about that? @Cybnate, interested in knowing a little bit more about that? There were four payments within four weeks which all were around 8 - 9 k USD. What kind of work were those payments for?
I can only guess to that as much as you can. I’m not handing out work or grants on behalf of Nu to anyone, neither being paid in any form or means other than the benefits (if any) of my own shareholdings. I would only do that when there is a public contract as I have done in the past for NuDroid.
My observation: in the last few weeks we have seen work around NuBot (look at the repo), we had an announcement about liquidity charts and some work on the blockexplorer and the work Sigmike has done on the client. Also had the handover of the forum which took some work. This beside the liquidity operations and operational expenses for websites, domanins, certs etc. Given the amount of 45k I hope there is an explanations for the gap. Possibly some future announcement on a piece of infra or backpay?
that is negligible.
@sigmike is even talking about the whole file. To be honest, @sigmike was the only one I expected to perhaps have earned most of the money paid out to contractors. Now he only got a tiny fraction of all expenses, hmm…
True, @woolly_sammoth is left, but four payments totaling around 32k USD in 4 - 5 weeks? Congrats to those who are still earning a lot of money with this project, well played. And the only capable developer we have, namely @sigmike who is publicly known, earned 1k USD within the whole time frame from the list. Keep it going guys, I am impressed.
I can’t pretend that 32k wouldn’t have been useful but I can only claim $7260 of the contractor payments since November Last year.
That has covered NuBot development (mainly new currency support), NuBot operation at Cryptopia, The forum migration and upkeep (as mentioned by @Cybnate), The installation and upkeep of a B&C block-explorer, improvement of the Nu block explorer code and submission of a pull request to have those improvements merged into the main branch, development of a new block parser/explorer to act as the basis of auxiliary services for both Nu and B&C. Development of the charts and tables previously posted (with more to come).
Thanks for being transparent about your payments and contributions @woolly_sammoth.
So that means $7260 since November last year for @woolly_sammoth. Well, that probably leaves us with most of the 45k USD just during the last two months undeclared. @Cybnate or @woolly_sammoth, are there people coming to your mind that could have worked so much just within two months time to justify 45k USD? I mean, @sigmike and @woolly_sammoth, both of whom I considered the most expensive contributors (not saying that your services aren’t valuable!) can be crossed of the list for now. Who is left?
2017-04-26 0.50000000 BTC
List NSR at YoBit
@jooize you listed a 0.5 BTC payment for the listing of NSR at Yobit. I can’t find NSR there. What is the issue? That listing was promised per payment about two months ago. Who has the money now?
Edit: So there are roughly 20k USD expenses for May. @woolly_sammoth would you be willing to disclose how much you account for just during May? I mean, someone must have received the money, no doubt about that, right? Who are those people if it’s not @sigmike and @woolly_sammoth? Anyone else interested in knowing that?
Apologies, I need to make a slight adjustment to the figures in my last post. I was looking at records of how much funds I got from sales rather than the amounts I invoiced.
Looking at the amounts I invoiced, the figure since November 2016 goes up to $9522.50
The figure for May alone is $3315
I wouldn’t like to speculate about other funds listed in the invoices provided by @jooize. I don’t have access to any information that would give me a clue to what those payments were for or who they were to so it would be purely speculation. I would like to say that I appreciate @jooize not disclosing the information about contractors payments and leaving it to those of us who want to to disclose it ourselves instead. This is a public forum and that could be sensitive and personal information. I agree that it should be made available to shareholders but I would want that to be in a way that doesn’t post it here necessarily. It’s a tough issue to solve (another one for the list) but I think the decision was the right one. I do hope that more contractors will post their earnings in the light of transparency.
What about @jooize just posts numbers? Contractor 1,2,3,n and payment in the amount of X to contractor n?
Apart from that: @woolly_sammoth, I think you are are probably more closely involved with dev costs in general. Those transactions of 8 to 9k USD during April and May, was there any service provided to Nu that you are aware of that could cost like 8 to 9k USD times 4 for two months? I mean, if all your work since November has been worth $9522,50, then what has been done for Nu that is worth 4 times as much within a time frame of two months?
Edit: The least @jooize can do is explain what kind of service was rendered in particular for the large payments of 8 to 9k USD from 2017-05-30 / 2017-05-16 / 2017-04-27 / 2017-04-26. If there is heavy development going on, then 8k USD is not that much money, although it is still quite significant. But there was no development going on and @sigmike and @woolly_sammoth already kindly disclosed how much they got. @jooize what about bringing at least some light into this?
I agree with that. Disclosing names and numbers without agreement can’t be the solution to this urgent transparency issue. Nonetheless, those payments around 8 to 9k USD are really significant compared to all other payments. It wasn’t @woolly_sammoth , it wasn’t @sigmike. Who else is providing coding work or anything else of similar value? And even then if there was someone, what kind of contributions were those and how are they observable and perceivable by shareholders as a whole and not only by some very special individuals?
They do. I’m disappointed to say they took the money and gave us nothing. No communication after multiple attempts. Were I to guess, they turned us down because of the toxic atmosphere in our forum and the scam accusations. Many coins have been listed there since.
Your explanation lacks substance, but this forum is used to that. Not listing Nu is one thing. Taking money for listing Nu, not listing Nu, and not returning the money is a completely different thing. But I am sure you understand their approach as it is quite similar to what you are doing on a daily basis. Did Alcurex turn Nu down? Did Cryptopia turn Nu down?
Are you earning a couple thousand dollars per month with Nu currently?
We need accounting transparency at least more than now, indeed. @jooize please help Nu as much as possible on this regard.
Yes, I will ignore those questions. I’ve given my reasons and I’m currently not in condition to responsibly alter that position even if I’d reached another conclusion. Regarding what I earn there is nothing I worry about in that information, but I won’t carelessly reveal that amount to the most hostile person I’m engaged with.
Even if blockchain analysis reveals such information, should that be allowed to be posted? It’s an interesting consideration. I think most would agree that posting someone’s home address here even if publically listed elsewhere would be unacceptable. Not necessarily comparable.
Consider also that herd anonymity for contractors’ pay is reduced by every disclosure.
Maybe a Shareholder sub-forum that requires you to prove ownership via network signature for a certain threshold amount of NuShares? I think 5-10m NuShares is a decent requirement to start at, then decrease as NSR value increases. It’s a thought. Some type of action and/or oversight needs to take place to restore community trust. It’s obviously a bit of an issue (and probably the only thing keeping NSR price from surging!)
This seems backwards from the principle idea of the Nu Network in terms of being a decentralized & Shareholder owned network. There is none of this veil of secrecy associated with Dash network as the network-generated monthly budget is openly voted on by all MasterNode owners. Every payment for every goods or service payment ever made is not only publicly known but openly discussed/debated. This type of system is what we need in order to regain strength, but unfortunately without it being coded as law into the network I doubt this will ever happen (but it is coded as law!!). In reality wouldn’t the current practice completely contradict the entire system that was developed for Nu? All contractor payments should be voted on & distributed as grants, right? The network funds currently being used for contractor payments should in fact be intended solely for network liquidity with all excess profits automatically allocated to dividend acquisition followed by Shareholder distribution (which is now NSR Buybacks). Am I wrong? This is how the system was originally intended and with good reason in my opinion. If shareholders don’t have any control whatsoever over this integral function of the Nu Network then what is left to even justify the title ‘Shareholder’? In my opinion, that title kind of already went out the window when the decision was made to stop issuing PPC dividends to shareholders and switch entirely to a buyback and burn system (I’ve personally not seen much share burning) and I think the market agrees. Dividends are literally the main essential fact/feature that separate “a share” or “a shareholder” from other investment options. In most cases a shareholder doesn’t even influence decision making unless they own a majority or have a seat on the board of directors. There is still detailed information all over the site about the PPC Dividend too! I’m hesitant to start removing it because personally I hope the PPC Dividend is re-implemented if even on a 50% Dividend / 50% BuyBack basis. The dividend not only gives investors a reason to get excited and a verifiable reward for their NSR investments (even if in small increments) but also re-engages the Peercoin community. They obviously have a solid core community and a great industry perception as a legacy crypto. We would be lucky to rebuild that connection. The dividend could single-handedly re-ignite consumer interest allowing us to use that demand to re-negotiate with major exchanges & merchant processors as well (plus shapeshift or blocktrade). Aaannd I’m done ranting =) <3 you guys
Every payment should be done via a grant.
If not, it should require a description of details later on.
Can you create a motion?
Also, i d much prefer peercoin dividends.
Can you create a motion?
Yes, I will write them both in more detail and have the motions posted here for review by tomorrow. Any ideas you or anyone else has are more than welcome. The more shareholders that are happy with the motions the better chance we have of getting this passed. I can be reached via PM, the Nu Gitter (proteanx), xmpp (email@example.com) or even email (firstname.lastname@example.org).
Good luck with your motions… Sorry to say that, but Nu isn’t about motions. It is about personal enrichment. About front-running etc. @jooize isn’t even willing to disclose what kind of service was rendered for those 8 - 9 k USD payments. Not even a single word. LP, coding, anything would help. He doesn’t provide it. DAO here we go!
$45,000 USD spent within two months, and not a single shareholder except for @jooize and @Phoenix is allowed to know what that money was for. Jesus, what point am I missing here… Shareholders can’T even judge whether they get the right value for their money? Who the hell judges that? @jooize, who judges that?