Wake up Shareholders! Raise Park Rates Now or FLOT Will Need to Start Selling NuShares to Increase Reserves!

[Sentinelrv]

Note: I’m speaking mainly to the majority of shareholders here and not regular forum members who already know.

Shareholders need to WAKE UP and PAY ATTENTION to what is going on in the forum. We are currently in a demand slump and our reserves are getting lower. Regular forum members have been calling for the raising of park rates for WEEKS now, yet park rates have barely budged. I’m posting this thread hoping the title will catch the eye of shareholders who haven’t been following forum discussions like they should be so they will know these things.

If you want your NuShares to be diluted, keep doing what you’re doing, absolutely nothing. FLOT will end up having to take action by selling NuShares because you’re sleeping on the job. Get with the program and raise parking rates now. If you don’t have time to follow forum discussions then subscribe to one of our 3 data feeds, otherwise you are harming your own investment by not voting for important things. Check the park rate voting thread here for the latest. Sorry to be so blunt, but shareholders should have known about and done this weeks ago. You can’t expect this network to succeed if shareholders aren’t paying attention to things this important.

And while you’re at it, check @Nagalim’s two motions here, as they’re greatly needed and not receiving enough support from shareholders. We need rules for our upper tiers and Nagalim provides a model here…

• [Voting] Standard and Core

• [Voting] Outstanding Nubits

Here are a couple quotes about our parking situation from others as well…

Park Rate Voting

Wake up! Our reserves are emptying, standard is farrrrr in the negative. Either set reasonable park rates or we will be forced to unneccessarily dilute.

Every indicator screams for park rates. What are shareholders doing?

Park Rate Voting

As I understand it, the framework set up via shareholder motions which is summarised in the NSR buyback calculation script does indeed suggest there shouldn’t be any controversy about setting park rates now.

Yet, votes to raise park rates above zero for a 3 month term have dropped in recent days from around 26% to 16% now. I don’t know why it is moving that direction.

We have provided park rates on multiple occasions in the past. They have always returned to zero. I get the impression some shareholders are reluctant to provide park rates because it suggests we are not growing at the moment. That’s true, and such periods were always expected as normal fluctuations in demand.

We should make small adjustments before larger, less orderly adjustments become necessary.

I believe the main reason for our lack of growth in recent weeks is the low volatility of Bitcoin in that time period. That won’t last, and there is reason to think we will see more adoption once Bitcoin becomes volatile again, as it always has in the past. The odds of Bitcoin remaining stable for even two months is low.

Another important factor is that NuBits in the B&C Exchange development fund are being spent more quickly now, at a rate of 25,000 or 30,000 NBT per month. This is sure to be a temporary factor.

[Yurizhai]

Don’t we also need to advertise parking rates? It’s not as if people magically know about Nu and parking either, even if there were rates.

[Nagalim]

@willy Alix feature? Im not sure how else we could advertise without a website to link to.

[zoro]

From all the discussion all this time about shareholders’ “sleep” do you guys get the impression that
this radical DAO that we have set up and want so badly to succeed, is held back by the old traditional thinking of investors?

[willy]

@willy Alix feature? Im not sure how else we could advertise without a website to link to.

Good idea!

[Sentinelrv]

From all the discussion all this time about shareholders’ “sleep” do you guys get the impression that
this radical DAO that we have set up and want so badly to succeed, is held back by the old traditional thinking of investors?

I get the impression that there are a lot of people who bought shares that only care about price speculation and aren’t interested in working to build a successful business. Either that, or they do believe in Nu, but are leeching off the efforts of others while doing nothing themselves. A minority of shareholders however are interested and realize the potential of Nu. The minority are regular forum posters and perhaps people who regularly vote behind the scenes. We’re held back though by the fact that we need to baby the majority of shareholders in order to get anything done.

Babying the majority includes things like making data feeds auto-install, alerting them when they need to upgrade and simply begging them on the forum to do what they’re supposed to be doing with threads like this one. If we didn’t have data feeds, we’d be dead in the water.

All shareholders should take an interest in helping to build a successful business, but I guess it’s unreasonable to expect that. People are lazy and try to do the least amount of work possible, so it seems that we’ll always have this problem and will need to cater to lazy shareholders by designing technology like frequency voting that allows the minority to run the business without letting the lazy shareholders bring down the whole thing. Either that or we support something like the BKS proposal @masterOfDisaster introduced, where we drop the dead weight by diluting lazy shareholders and increasing the equity of active shareholders, making the current active minority the new majority.

[masterOfDisaster]

I was in a conversation with @Sentinelrv, which might have helped spawning this thread.
To add a little drama to this post, here’s an extended quote from my last post in that private conversation.
I think it fits well to this topic.
Thank you, @Sentinelrv for not disclosing it.

[…]
Imagine where we’d be without Cointoolkit, the buyback calulating script, etc.
So many people from FLOT invest so much time.
And then there’s people like you, Nagalim and so many others whose contributions are so valuable.

I just can’t understand why NSR holders do the most simple thing: mint and vote. If they don’t want to configure votes manually and don’t want to follow discussions closely, they can register a data feed,
Is that so hard?

The dilution definitively needs to be prepared. That threat alone will wake NSR holders. Without shareholders awakening, I see no future for Nu. Would that we had frequency voting. But people didn’t listen to creon and Nagalim.
We are in the lucky position to have 25 million NSR under FLOT control. Without that it’d look much worse.
Not having a framework for the sale, it’s once again on the shoulders of FLOT to discuss when and how to sell how many NSR.
[…]
It’s half a year ago since I first tried to draft a framework.
Nagalim posted an improved version. It’s up for voting for days. The first vote was 2.5 days ago.
The support is laughable:

More and more I get the feeling that I waste my time here.
FLOT is too convenient and too cheap.
I still need to learn it the hard way, I really do.
I thought I learned it when I started created the draft for the very first gateways at Poloniex, which I offered for free.
But if you request too few compensation, the problem remains: too little competition.
If you start expensive, someone will try to be cheaper while offering the same service.
If you offer cheaply, you’ll get exploited.

People are rarely good. They are selfish and lazy.
It’s very black and white here: in the forum are the good people and a majority of the NSR holders are the bad people.
They need to pay for their laziness and selfishness.
It’s not right to let others do their job, because they believe in what Nu can become.

I’m not even sure whether I’d like to do FLOT stuff an all else even for way more compensation.

I have been able to move some things, but not enough.

When NuPool failed for over a week (was that in January? Anyway, it was no technical failure, but an economical one…) I could keep the peg at Poloniex, which almost cost my sanity. I realized only later that the spread needs to be bigger, otherwise heavy traders kill you and the liquidity provision.

Learning from that I developed an alternative liquidity operations scheme, but Nu still pays close to 5,000 NBT each month to NuLagoon.
The ALP come on top with some thousand NBT, but ALP remain necessary even with the improved scheme.
And with CRFC ALP will be much cheaper and more reliable - another improvement pioneered by Nagalim.
But even threatening to start a sale of NSR doesn’t wake NSR holders to vote for park rates, although the T4 reserves are so low that it’s frigthening.
Oh, how I wish seeded auctions were ready. But too few found this idea from Nagalim important enough. The NSR sale would be easy with it and directly remove NBT without going through BTC.

At BCE I could stop the sale of BKS and showed a way to bring the protocol 4.0 votes to a high level with a drastic measure.

It’s not really working any more. Too many people don’t care.
It’s not the fun it once was.
Maybe I’m just done here.

I don’t even know why you are the victim of this rant.
I guess its because you care and wrote me a PM.
See, how unfair this is? I’m one of them…

[Sentinelrv]

And here was the response I just replied with…

[quote=Sentinelrv]I posted a thread yelling at the lazy shareholders to get with the program and raise parking rates…

Wake up Shareholders! Raise Park Rates Now or FLOT Will Need to Start Selling NuShares to Increase Reserves!

Note: I'm speaking mainly to the majority of shareholders here and not regular forum members who already know. Shareholders need to WAKE UP and PAY ATTENTION to what is going on in the forum. We are currently in a demand slump and our reserves are getting lower. Regular forum members have been calling for the raising of park rates for WEEKS now, yet park rates have barely budged. I'm posting this thread hoping the title will catch the eye of shareholders who haven't been following forum discus…

I have a feeling the majority of them don’t dig into the discussion threads to find out what is going on, so I’m hoping they will see the thread title and realize what is going on. It’s like we need to take the news to them in order for them to do anything about it. Hopefully they at least visit the forum to see it.

I see you are majorly discouraged. I believe whether we are in Nu or a traditional company, this laziness and selfishness will exist in a lot of people, so it’s not like we can escape it. When I get in a negative mood because of things like this, I just try to remind myself what I am doing this all for and that usually helps keep me on track. It’s about half and half for me, the amount of money I could earn, plus the better future crypto could bring to people around the world. Also, I’ve come too far just to stop now. I’ve spent more than 3 years of my life on this stuff now and am fully invested. I don’t know what else I would do if I stopped. Also, I remember from the book Think & Grow Rich the story of the guy who stopped digging 3 feet from gold and lost everything. It’s short, read it here…

https://betterlifecoachingblog.com/2011/02/11/three-feet-from-gold-a-story-about-perseverance/[/quote]

As I said above, this apathy is most likely going to exist to some degree in any business you are in, whether it’s crypto or traditional, so there’s no escaping it. Either we’re going to have to cater toward lazy shareholders with technology like @Nagalim’s frequency voting or we’re going to have to punish them by diluting their shares and making the active minority the new majority.

[JordanLee]

Without shareholders awakening, I see no future for Nu.

I don’t share this perspective. Data feeds were discussed extensively in the whitepaper which is now 2 years old. They are an important part of the original design, for good reason.

A Peershare won’t succeed if it depends on shareholders being well informed of operational details. Fortunately, that has never been the plan, as I see it.

The problems we are seeing with apathy among B&C Exchange shareholders and the much more minor problem we see with NuShare holders is simply our cue that it is time to prioritise data feed development, particularly default data feeds. I am confident that the easy to develop release I proposed here will be available soon and the difficulties we are facing now in regards to shareholder apathy will be mostly forgotten as they become irrelevant. We can do something similar in the NuBit 2.2 release.

So, let’s get default data feeds out and let the poor shareholders sleep. Owning NuShares or BlockShares doesn’t have to be a time consuming affair. It is OK to buy shares and sit on them, completely ignoring what is going on until you are ready to sell. With upgrades being prompted by default data feeds in the next release for each network, shareholders can even mint without paying attention to what is going on.

Those of you posting in this forum who are paying close attention are very much needed. We need a lot of people like that to attend to the operation of our networks and provide data feeds to others.

Let’s be careful about sending the message that to be a shareholder takes a lot of ongoing effort. That would be unattractive to most would be shareholders. We can, and should, cheerfully accommodate the apathy of most shareholders with default data feeds. It will work.

[Mark]

As you see almost all FLOT members are exhausted of all this manual work to maintain the peg. Could you imagine to maintain the peg with 1 billion $ liquidity. Or 10 billion $. Mission impossible.

We need automation of maintaining the peg. I think it is time the Nu Architect @JordanLee to share his vision about possibilities to solve this problem.

Personally, I like @Benjamin’s proposal, but I would like to hear others thoughts.

Some Suggestions To Eliminate Peg Maintenance Expenditures

Hello, I thought I would chime in with some suggestions. I will briefly describe a possible revamp of the peg maintenance system and then explain its potential advantages. System: 1) In each PoS block, Nushares record a binary vote about the current Nubits/USD exchange rate on external markets. 1 if the price of Nubits is > 1 USD or 0 if the price of Nubits is < 1 USD. 2) Every 24 hours (approximated in terms of blocks), an auction of Nubits and Nushares is conducted within the block ch…

[masterOfDisaster]

I don’t share this perspective.

You don’t have to. But it’s hard to deny the fact that a majority of NSR aren’t even used for minting and those who are, are used by people who either don’t configure votes manually or register data feeds.

Park Rate Voting

That means 66% of NSR are in the hands of people who don't care at all and 17% of NSR are in the hands of people who don't care enough. That leaves 17% to the hands of people who care. What can 1/6th do? Decentralized governance is a great idea. Without FLOT Nu would be doomed.

It’s good to have data feeds. But they need to be used.

Those of you posting in this forum who are paying close attention are very much needed.

What for, if those who need to listen, don’t listen; if those who need to care, don’t care?
It’s frustrating to see NSR holders not doing a minimum for the well-being of Nu, which is to mint and register a data feed.

Let’s be careful about sending the message that to be a shareholder takes a lot of ongoing effort.

It can be very little effort if done right:

• keep the client up-to-date
• register data feed
• mint

How much of that is done by way too many shareholders can be seen at the current Nu (park rates rising too slowly) and BCE (protocol 4.0 voted at 41.2% (block 413,208)) situation.

We can, and should, cheerfully accommodate the apathy of most shareholders with default data feeds. It will work.

…if the corporation the shareholders own lasts long enough.

You don’t only have to cater for shareholders.
You have to cater for those who keep the system running, those who are involved in the operational business (in which the shareholders aren’t interested in) running.

I meant it when I said I’m considering my retirement from FLOT. It’s a lot of work for little money against an opposition of not caring shareholders. Tilting at windmills is tiring.
The only reason why I haven’t done it already is because of idealistic lunacy.

[Sentinelrv]

As you see almost all FLOT members are exhausted of all this manual work to maintain the peg. Could you imagine to maintain the peg with 1 billion $ liquidity. Or 10 billion $. Mission impossible.

We need automation of maintaining the peg. I think it is time the Nu Architect @JordanLee to share his vision about possibilities to solve this problem.

This would be nice to hear from @JordanLee.

[JordanLee]

As you see almost all FLOT members are exhausted of all this manual work to maintain the peg. Could you imagine to maintain the peg with 1 billion $ liquidity. Or 10 billion $. Mission impossible.

We need automation of maintaining the peg. I think it is time the Nu Architect @JordanLee to share his vision about possibilities to solve this problem.

Despite operating with an extremely meager budget, the pace of innovation in liquidity operations has been dizzying. Things are changing and improving so fast it is hard to remain aware of the current state of liquidity operations. Since release just a year and a half ago, we have taken most of the counterparty risk out of liquidity operations, pools were developed and NuLagoon Tube was developed. Then FLOT became a reality, the first operation of its kind among blockchain networks. There’s also ALix that helps us track real time and historical liquidity statistics. Then gateways appeared. Very recently, we have witnessed total liquidity rise as the spreads collapse along with costs. Its a very positive picture. All of this innovation was created with very little money. Its a performance we should be proud of.

In regard to FLOT members being exhausted: being on call for multisig signing isn’t for everyone. I think it is a few signings a week. That’s actually not a lot of manual work. Few businesses operate with the level of automation we do. Still, I’m sure it can be automated somewhat. That isn’t my priority right now. If you are a FLOT member and you don’t feel like you are being compensated enough, then demand more compensation. Shareholders will either approve it or you can be replaced by someone who feels good about participating with things as they are.

I see a lot of expressions of bear market sentiment here. Smart investors discipline themselves to move opposite of the crowd: buy amidst fear and panic, sell when there is euphoria.

[JordanLee]

But it’s hard to deny the fact that a majority of NSR aren’t even used for minting and those who are, are used by people who either don’t configure votes manually or register data feeds.

It’s fine that most shares aren’t minting. It creates a lucrative opportunity for those that do. Without looking at numbers right now, I believe minters are making around an 8% annual return in block rewards.

The evidence that most NuShare minters are configuring their votes is quite strong.

I can see a lot of frustration @masterOfDisaster. You have done great work for our network and blockchain innovation. Everybody has the privilege of negotiating their involvement here so that it is something positive that benefits all involved.

[zoro]

There is no way to “wake up” the sleeping beauties no matter how loud we shout
We just have to make NU “ignores” them

[Sentinelrv]

I had written this before Jordan’s 1st post in this thread and didn’t want to see it go to waste…

[quote=Sentinelrv]This actually reminds me of what happened to my enthusiasm for politics. If you read my profile you’d know I was a big Ron Paul guy. I was really excited the 1st and 2nd time he ran, but between the media’s blackout and the Republican establishment’s dirty tricks to destroy his chances, I lost all faith in the political process. The biggest factor though was the complete ignorance and lack of care of the majority of people about the importance of the issues he was talking about. Everyone I talked to just didn’t care or were too lazy to learn more (sounds like some people we know).

I went from actively contributing and talking to people about the ideas of liberty to downgrading my opinion of humanity and keeping my ideas to myself. When Ron Paul’s son ran this cycle I just wasn’t as excited due to everything that had happened before and he actually ended up doing worse than his father. I still deeply care about the issues he talked about, but I no long have any delusions that the majority of people are going to wake up one day and realize these things, therefore I’m less inclined to go out of my way and waste time on it.

In our case, the regular forum goers are similar to the Ron Paul supporters, excited and believing in what they’re doing, working long hours for free if necessary. And the majority of NuShareholders are like the public, ignorant, lazy and not caring. While it’s very discouraging to find this same behavior in a decentralized organization, I haven’t lost all faith yet like I did with politics. The main reason is because we can still use technology like data feeds and frequency voting to subvert the negative influence of apathetic shareholders, where in real life we can’t.

Another factor which is probably increasing apathy is the lack of profit shareholders have earned since Nu started. If we were making regular profit now like we hope to be in the future, (for example, monthly dividends) I believe we would see a lot more shareholders interested in contributing, whether it’s free or paid work. It’s hard to get people to constantly work to solve problems like we’re doing when there is only a hope of reward in the future.

B&C Exchange may be a little different once it goes live and trading fees start coming in. Right now people are apathetic because there is nothing for them to do. Once they start getting rewarded on a regular basis, I would imagine they would want to do what they can to protect that revenue stream and become more involved, though it could be wishful thinking on my part as well.

The same can’t be said about Nu at the moment, since it’s mostly all work with no immediate reward, unless of course you ask for compensation. Anyway, I hope that we can find a way to reduce the negative influence of apathetic shareholders, whether through subversion techniques like data feeds and frequency voting or punishment tactics like share dilution.[/quote]

Now that Jordan has responded, I’m willing to go along with default data feeds to try and subvert the negative influence of apathetic minters. Let’s see how that solution works out before we resort to more extreme measures such as dilution. Once Nu 2.2 releases with this feature, it would probably be a good idea for more data feed providers to pop up. We don’t want feeds to be too centralized.

[masterOfDisaster]

being on call for multisig signing isn’t for everyone. I think it is a few signings a week.

This is not what’s exhausting.
Rubberstamping tx is thanks to @ttutdxh and Cointoolkit easy.

Tracking the liquidity situation, the ALP status, the status of the gateways, trying to find out what’s going on, what’s necessary to do, how much funds to put where is tiring.
Others fight at bter, because of price feeds that are just off from other markets, pool operators struggling with pool software, etc.
A lot of the work that’s done isn’t recognized, because it leads to no action. If the liquidity assessment is “looking good”, then nothing happens, no tx gets created.
That part of the work stays behind the scenes.

Do you think tx at the right point of time appear out of nowhere all of a sudden?
Or gateways at the most important exchange are thought of by chance?
Or a paradigm shift of the liquidity provision scheme (that yet needs to happen)?
Or frequency voting, seeded auctions, fixed cost compensation (improved to CRFC), etc.?
All of that is the result of trying to get a grasp of a complex market and trying to adapt to it.

Yet attempts to move some of the decisions to NSR holders are not as successful as they should be (I suppose mostly, because there’s too much minting without attention and without data feeds).

With regard to liquidity we have no reliable thresholds, no triggered actions, no guide what to do when. We have bits and pieces, but no complete framework that describes the interaction between all the tiers of the liquidity provision scheme in a way that you know what to do when. That needs automation.
Most is done by discretion of FLOT.
If FLOT liquidity activity can be reduced to rubberstamping tx most of the time, it’s sustainable.

This liquidity scheme isn’t scalable without more automation.
Managing bigger amounts of cirulating US-NBT will be a pain without it.
I can’t imagine how Nu shall handle EU-NBT, CN-NBT, X-NBT…

This has nothing to do with bear market sentiment.
This is no economical frustration, but rather a political one.

I can see a lot of frustration

Because there is.
Do I really expect too much, if I want NSR holders to keep clients up-to-date and mint with registered data feeds?
Which would be the bare minimum to deal with the current situation without too much struggle.

[irritant]

the problem isnt with shareholders not voting imo, it is with the minting (voting) nushareholders, who aren’t voting on anything, default datafeed could help in this situation, or if you change the way the voting goes. Like, you say all empty votes are for all the current motions instead of against. Idk if this is really possible, you would have to … yeah idk maybe all motions should be accepted by default, and you only vote when you are against it? idk it is complicated

[Chronos]

Smart investors discipline themselves to move opposite of the crowd: buy amidst fear and panic, sell when there is euphoria.

Did somebody say “panic”? That’s my middle name!

What about this idea: in order to enable minting in the client, you need to select a data feed (or acknowledge that you are voting against everything).

[Nagalim]

in order to enable minting in the client, you need to select a data feed (or acknowledge that you are voting against everything)

I like this. Of course, i will always argue for frequency voting over default data feeds, but this would make me feel much more comfortable with default data feeds. I am very much against having a single default feed or voting yes on all motions by default.