Vision for NuNet ecosystem with stable, non-volatile Bitcoins and Peercoins for end users

Below a vision and deliberations on the role NuNet might take. It might not be the only horse we are betting on, but I think it should be high on the list. Will take you on a journey through banks, payment providers, stable Bitcoins and Peercoins for all, NuNet and Apple. Nice to see them all in one sentence, isn’t?
I could have put this in under the NBT use case thread, but I didn’t want to hi-jack that thread. Anyway, please start reading, and just hold on and be brave to the end :slight_smile: I hope it will be worth your time and inspire you!

In the last few days I managed to catch up with news outside the NuNet ecosystem. This opened my eyes to the extent that the NuNet ecosystem on its own might struggle as being snowed under as a small diamond waiting to be found.
More marketing would be an obvious answer, but I doubt whether we have the firepower we will need to fight established institutions like Bitcoin is at least trying. But even they struggle against the likes of Apple (with Apple pay) and the large banks now offering direct payments with your phone providing an user experience we can only dream of at this stage. We need to change tact.

The competition
Some may have been able to look at the latest offering (pilots) from the banks. But even if you have not you can imagine that when they launch a set of mobile clients suitable for 90% of the phones used in this world that they ensure it would make a seamless integration with your existing bank account. It would be so easy that the hassle with any Bitcoin mobile client would seem unnecessary complex. Even though only 50% of the world has access to a bank account this would likely smother other initiatives for a long time.

Now throw a company like Apple into the game which is renown for providing a great end user experience by locking in the users into their ecosystem. And add a few large retail corporations which appeal to the masses. Would this never happen? Well it is happening now and it is called Apple Pay, it will work with NFC so your mobile phone is your wallet. The only thing they really changed is the payment channel. Read more here: Coindesk article on Apple pay
What is our answer to that?

Strength and Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats analyses SWOT
What do we as NuNet have to offer? We can bring stability of any cryptocurrency to this world. Not just NuBits but to any cryptocurrency including Bitcoin. Not a small feat. Imagine NuNet as the backbone. Let me explain later on how. But why would we do that and just not continue on our own? NuBits doesn’t have the ecosystem like Bitcoin or even Peercoin has. It will take years to build that and although there is some value in having redundancy I don’t think it is worth to have tens of expensive ecosystems for every coin. From a wider perspective it is a waste of money. It would be much better to join forces and built upon what we have e.g. Bitcoin and Peercoin ecosystem and add strengths from the NuNet system.

NuNet doesn’t have an Andreas Antonopoulos going to Canadian Senate to inform them. NuNet doesn’t have large groups of advocates spreading the word around the world and educating people. NuNet doesn’t have wide scale adoption with ATMs and at least patches of retailers accepting NuBits. So NuNet has a long and potentially expensive road ahead with a large risk to get snowed under or out competed along the way.

SWOT Bitcoin
Bitcoin doesn’t have a stable currency. Bitcoin doesn’t have a nice client arguably (not as nice as the NuBits one at least). Bitcoin is based on a protocol which is at risk of becoming very centralised. Bitcoin is not able to change protocol (fork) easily to e.g. jump to proof of stake or anything else which might provide future proofing for Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is at risk as they don’t have the flexibility to adapt to survive in the long term without becoming centralised.

User experience and integration
You might already see where this is going. Integrating Bitcoin or Peercoin with NuNet protocols. Crazy idea? I don’t think so. Both ecosystems can benefit from each other. In order to make a stand against the Apples and banks of this world (the old centralised institutions) we really need to collaborate (not centralise). In order to make a real viable, stable and widely accepted crypto currency we need to collaborate and pick the strengths of two or more existing crypto ecosystems. We will need a more user friendly and attractive client, more like the NuBits client than the Bitcoin client. More like what the banks offer with internet banking than the NuBits client. It will need to be very simple and recognisable for the end users. Ok sounds good I hear you saying, but how would we get there?

Currency agnostic client and APIs
Now we are getting to the technical bits. Ben and others talking about APIs and website for instant cryptocoin conversion brought me to the idea to bring it to the next evolution. Here are the links which inspired me: Nubits and shapeshift and Tip4participation. The technology to integrate is there.
So why not integrate e.g. Bitcoin or Peercoin into a NuNet client? Not just as they would live next to each other as we have seen with multi-currency wallets. But using NuBits as a real backbone crypto currency. The user would still send and receive Bitcoins or Peercoins (or any other crypto with an established ecosystem) and not see much difference. However to be able to stabilise the value of the Bitcoin/Peercoin it would be almost instantly and seamlessly converted to NBT in the background on default. Options can be provided if the user doesn’t want instant conversion.
The API of the likes of shapeshift and coinomat can take care of that or we can consider our own platform to be able to provide the level seamlessness and trust we need to provide to the user.

Stable Bitcoins and Peercoins, the holy grail?
With this we have basically created a stable Bitcoin and Peercoin for everyone who wants it believe it or not :smiley: . At least in the perception of people who would use these tools. The price of the crypto currencies will still fluctuate allowing speculators to continue what they like. It only shields users with NuNet wallets from the volatility. As soon as the consumer wishes to spend some coins at a retailer accepting Bitcoins, the NBT will be seamlessly exchanged to BTC in the background and the Bitcoins can be spend. We have the technology, let’s build it.

On top of that we might have to invest in more people like Ben who can design user interfaces and make them attractive and practicable. We have seen patches of good examples in some Bitcoin clients and of course our NuBits client but again there is no client provider which provides a nice mobile client and a nice PC client which actually have the same look and feel across the board. And where you can share the addresses you use and share notes you make about them. But I’m getting distracted, let’s see what else we have to overcome.

Challenges to overcome
Divert and conquer! It is a classic and still working and widely used by politicians and lobbyists. The more different views you spread the more people get confused and not willing to make any decision and keep things the same or will start listening to the loudest one usually the one with the most money to spend.
We are facing the same feat if we don’t collaborate. The large corporations will offer a silky soft bed for every their customers and offer to get them in a no worries, no problems, everything stays the same mode which is the most comfortable for most human being after all. However as we have seen before their expensive centralised systems will fail either by corruption, hacks and thefts which the consumer ends up to paying the bill for. E.g. check out how creditcards work. At the same time they will be strongly advocating and lobbying governments that cryptocoins are unsafe, unreliable, can’t be used, are uncontrolled and anarchistic, threaten the economy etc. I won’t mention all the arguments here not willing to feed them. But I will say we haven’t seen anything yet, it is just in its infancy as many people are still grasping what cryptocoins are really about.

So I would plead to reach out to Bitcoin community and work with them to provide what Bitcoin really needs to be able to get adopted as a fiat alternative. They won’t be able to get there (see SWOT) on their own and we at NuNet won’t be able to make NuBits the Number 1 crypto at least not in the short term (next year or so). Together we would be able to provide a viable alternative now even if it is only transitional. I think we are at crossroads where the banks start realising that they have to gear up and start doing so. We will have to match their offerings, else we would face years of slow adoption and will be send into a niche market. The only way to prevent that from happening is in my opinion to join forces, pragmatically and at least for a while till objectives and goals start differentiating. The beauty of decentralisation.

End game
As I started saying this is a vision and it shouldn’t be the only way we pursue. But I think we should definitely consider it in decisions we make going forward. Let’s make the funds we have work smart for us all instead of throwing dumb money at copying and pasting things adding no real value in advancing the adoption and wide use of crypto currencies and with that a decentralised monetary system (or systems) for the world independent from the whims of any country. NuNet can play a big role in that, if it wants to.

Let me end with saying Dream big, Act small. Take it step for step. But sometimes a bold step is required to move to the next level. Who contacts Bitcoin’s Andreas Antonopoulos and offers the stable Bitcoin solution to him?

Looking forward to your responses.


Oh, here is a brief summary or TLDR; for people with short attention spans :slight_smile:

I’m proposing to use Nunet/NuBits as a backbone currency which works seamless in a client which uses Bitcoins or Peercoins (or any other cryptocoin) from an end user perspective. This creates stability in the funds at end user level. It is achieved to exchange the Bitcoins or Peercoins to NuBits once received and exchanged back when they are spend using APIs like in Coinomat or similar instant cryptocoin exchanges.

That way the Bitcoin and Peercoin ecosystems can be used providing stable, non volatile wallets and building on existing ecosystems NuNet/NuBits doesn’t have (yet).

so say I have a specialized phone app.

Someones sends me btc to this phone app. It immediately sends the BTC to be sold for NBT. Boom - i’m safe.

Same token. Cofee shop I go to accepts BTC and that’s it. No Problem. My phone app sells the NBT in my account for the needed BTC to complete the transaction.

I can transact with any crypo-currency without being subjected to the volatility of them.



Yes, good use case. I would also add a PC app which also nicely integrates with your phone app addresses and config to have that ultimate user experience at both Point of Sale (POS) as in web shops as the banks offer or will offer soon.

i’ve read it, some things I don’t understand, or not agree with. Peercoin/Bitcoin is supposed to be the backbone, I see Nu as the, how you say it, frontbone?

are you proposing a NuBit version where the bits are pegged to Peercoin or Bitcoin? Like, autoparking the mined coins or something, flatlining the price with the NuBot magic? and using Nu as payment processor, to make 1 NuBTC always be 1 BTC (which, it already is, hmm dont know exactly what i’m saying)? I don’t think Peercoin or Bitcoin should be stable/flatlined. Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly still. It can only be stabilized in relation to, something else right? I mean, USD for now.

NuNet shouldn’t be a backbone imo, I see it more as a service, for now we still use the USD as world currency, until that changes (if ever), im still trying to understand what you mean with stabalizing Peercoin or Bitcoin, in the very long run I could see it maybe a little bit… I don’t know, when say BTC market cap is 100B or something, the price would fluctuate less probably, maybe you can explain it a bit more? I’m Sorry I’m not seeing your vision as of yet, and also for my incoherent writing :slight_smile:

edit: oh i see now what CoinGame replied, makes more sense now :slight_smile:

so it would make it possible to pay using every crypto (supported), using nubits? That would be awesome, still it wouldn’t stabalize BTC or PPC, well, maybe i just misinterpret what you mean with stabilizing, you pay with NuBit and the shop would get their crypto currency of choice? imo their choice should just be NuBits really, if they like to invest in PPC or BTC they can do manually, but maybe you are talking about an automated way for them to convert X% of their earnings to some of the crypto currencies of their choice?

Yes, using NuBits to prevent the value of your wallet from going up and down with the volatile cryptocoins.
Peercoin and Bitcoin would still be volatile, my idea makes it finally useful to have a stable crypto currency wallet for ordinary people not wanting to speculate and for merchants not wanting to deal or pay for payment providers, although a small fee for the instant exchanges would still be required to make it viable.

She’s talking about utilizing the advantages of the other coin communities. Bitcoin has pretty much the widest market acceptance right now. Instead of trying to fight them for it we work within that scheme (for now).

People will still buy NuBits, or have their other cryptos turned to NuBits automatically to stay safe. Then they’re not sitting around waiting for the world to accept NuBits because can they start spending them on stuff by having immediate conversion at the moment of transaction.

most shops use now for their btc/usd conversions right?
don’t know where exactly, but i think they are a piece of the puzzle… if they accept nubits as payment for their bitpay users (the shops, listing things using BTC price, or USD, but accepting BTC), shops wouldn’t necessarily dump the BTC on the market anymore, instead (have the choice) of keeping nubits, at some lower tx cost
idk, am i saying something smart here? like you guys :smile:

@CoinGame Indeed, Bitcoin et al providing the ecosystems, Nubits providing the stability for them required to use them as a currency.

@irritant I consider the payment providers as central solutions and middleman we do not necessarily require in the proposed system. The shops can hold Nubits themselves, only when they need to go to fiat they need an exchange provider.

Edit, with stable Bitcoins (read NuBits in the background) for end users, it will be easier for e.g. employees and suppliers to accept payments in e.g. Bitcoins or Peercoins as they will appear to be stable in value when using our instant exchange wallet (Nubex wallet?).

The challenge is getting bitpay to accept NuBits :stuck_out_tongue: If we had a system like @Cybnate is talking about we don’t have to ask anyone anything.

We would have one payment processing app to rule them all!

It’s 3am. I honesty haven’t thought through any sort of details because I can’t really think at all right now.

It seems like it would entice many people to purchase and hang onto NuBits much faster. They wouldn’t have to keep asking places to accept us. We’ll already be accepted anywhere that already accepts crypto. With the big advantage that they don’t have to worry about volatility.


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yes my brain needs a break too :wink: smells like brain vapor now, (4 am here) just my last 2 nubitcents for now:
shops are lazy, they dont care about bitcoin/peercoin/nubits, they dont care if the world ends, they only want their dollars, now more and more start accepting the crazy crypto money with the use of the centralized payment processors, if they would give the option for nubits, would be a great step in the transition from using usd to nubits, when they have time later they will learn it is better to just keep the nubits or something, with decentralized solution like Cybnate proposes , but shoedesigners just want to design shoes, bakers just want to bake bread and cakes, they dont know about economics because they have passion for other things , ok im out for now :slight_smile:

Frying brains here, hope it is only because of the late night for some people :wink:

@irritant Agree with merchants not caring about cryptocoins, but with what I call the NuBex wallet from now on, they can choose to deal with it like they deal with banks for their fiat. Some will keep their payment provider and probably end up paying for that and likely charging the customer and some will use the NuBex wallet at less cost as it was their bank account. As I said above, as soon as they realise that more and more people accept the cryptos and use NuBex wallets the less inclined they will be to use expensive payment providers. I accept that this will take time though, but one has to start somewhere and get the ball rolling.

I really like this idea Cybnate. I still personally view Peercoin as the future backbone currency but I can see the implementation of your idea providing a large amount of merchant acceptance without the merchants approval or awareness. This is really an idea that allows us to streamline merchant adoption and allow an immediate use case for NuBits. In the short-term, it will give us the merchant adoption of all cryptocurrencies while in the long term, give merchants more of a reason to implement NuBits, by volume alone. I don’t think people holding other cryptocurrencies will use this wallet but the people who are using NuBits will have a lot more buying power. I also don’t think this should be a collaboration. To be honest, I think other currencies will think this will help NuBits more than theirs, so they will not support it. It doesn’t matter. If this is made, it will give NuBits a considerable advantage. I would say this may even be disruptive within the cryptocurrency markets.
To add to your idea, instead of using shapeshift, make our own (or just buy shapeshift). This could be funded by the shareholders and provide revenues. This would provide lower middleman fees.
EDIT:(Actually after looking at the site some more, I think it may be easier to just use the service instead of taking all the development time/money to make our own.)

Great idea, Cybnate.

P.S. I absolutely love all the ideas coming out of these forums.

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dont know for sure, but, isnt the benefit for Bitcoin that merchants wont dump their BTC on exchanges? Now bitcoin adoption is reason why price is going down at times, i’ve heard, would exchanging them for NuBits prevent the sell pressure? guess maybe not… (yes i know i was out, still peaking here a bit :wink: )

Can we list NBT on, it’s very convenient and NBT is perfect for the platform as a backbone currency.

Buy Coins Instantly No Account Needed
"I’ve been waiting for a service like this. Great job!" - Charlie Lee, Creator of Litecoin

@irritant, please provide that fried brain of yours with some rest :wink:
I think the sell pressure will be the same initially, but with increasing adoption which this will provide the sell pressure will decrease as less will be leaking to fiat.

@Hibero I do think there is a case for collaboration as it will provide Bitcoin or Peercoin end users with a stable crypto wallet. You can even argue whether NuBits would have a good deal as the Bitcoin ecosystem might profit more from increased adoption than NuBits, at least in the short term.

Agree, this is nice to have, but a bit off-topic.

Services like also provide instant buying of coins for most Europeans.
They both use bots buying and selling on a real exchange in real time. Only when the exchange they use supports NuBits we can be added. It is just a matter of time.

I may have misunderstood your idea then. Does the wallet hold the currency in NuBits and just transfers out as any crypto you like? If that is the case, the reason I thought that most users would dislike doing that is because a lot of people are using cyptocurrencies as a speculative investment. With this sort of wallet architecture, users are losing the speculative side and the other cryptocurrencies are losing holders. So I would think that only people that want to use cryptocurrencies as a form of stable currency will use it (in that case they would be using NuBits anyway). There are tons of people using crypto as an investment though. This does not take away from your idea. I think it is a great one, especially for NuBits. I just think that most other cryptos wouldn’t like it because it does not bring their networks value. I think it would actually hurt them because if people did use it, it would create more sell pressure on their networks because people would be holding NuBits i.e. selling their crypto for NuBits.

I consider your idea as NuBit’s killer app.

Of course, I may be wrong though. Just my opinion.

Yes the so called NuBex wallet (working name) holds the value against the US$ in Nubits of the incoming cryptocurrency as it converts it into NuBits and converts it back into e.g. Bitcoins or Peercoins when the user wants to spend.You don’t have to use this wallet, speculators can still keep other wallets. But for end users wishing to have a stable wallet while still being able to use all the Bitcoin services and merchants accepting Bitcoins they would benefit from using the NuBex wallet. It will bring value to Bitcoin’s infrastructure as suddenly more people will start using it. At the same time the usage and demand of Nubits will increase providing the NuNet shareholders real value.

I agree that in the long term (many years) NuBits may develop their own ecosystem, but personally I’m not sure if that investment would pay off especially when it already exists (Bitcoin ecosystem) and new systems with far more capital than we have may also emerge. But that discussion is probably good for another thread.

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This is a GREAT idea!, it even will increase the accessibility of cryptocurrencies in Non-Banked regions with Scratch cards businesses which will be much easier, cheaper and user friendly solution than the volatile currencies scratch cards, It can even give the Non-Banked people an access to the online cash with much lower fees and with no minimum deposit or bank account needed!

I hope this idea to be realized soon and i wish i can help.