Support another currency besides NuBits?

The Plaza
#1

I’m very pleased to see the levels of decentralised liquidity higher than they have ever been before. Besides strengthening the peg, sufficient liquidity will give us the option to support a second currency.

There are a number of factors to be considered when choosing whether to support a second currency and choosing which currency it should be. Among these are the cost and feasibility of providing additional liquidity and the level of demand for the currency in question.

The most promising candidates are currencies pegged to the Chinese Yuan, the Euro and an inflation adjusted currency that maintains its purchasing power. I hope we will support all of these currencies eventually, but we will need to choose just one initially.

My thoughts are that 50,000 NBT additional total liquidity may be acceptable (in addition to the 100,000 I would like to see in our current situation). How much liquidity is allocated to each currency could be targeted based on the relative level of use of each currency. Ample sell side liquidity can always be made available in each currency. The more important issue is buy side liquidity. Where buy side liquidity is currently provided mostly as BTC, it can be switched between two supported currencies as needed. For this reason, we require considerably less than twice as much liquidity to support two currencies as opposed to one.

When considering which additional currency is supported first, I have observed that there are more Europeans than Chinese involved in Nu. However, I doubt that means a Euro pegged currency would be experience more demand than a Yuan pegged currency. Because an important early use of our currencies will be as a cash position for active traders, I think the trade volumes by currency as reported on coinmarketcap.com are important. Coinmarketcap excludes the CNY pairs from their sorted list of markets because none of them have trading fees. This is an indication there is an opinion held by some that this volume is not as meaningful as volume on exchanges with fees. My guess is that we will see less Nu currency held for each dollar of trading volume on zero fee markets than we will for each dollar of trading volume on markets with fees. Even so, the difference in Bitcoin trading volume between the Euro and Yuan is huge. At the present moment, 24 hour trading volume in CNY appears to be in the neighbourhood of 40 times as great as the volume in EUR. As a result, I’m inclined to support adding a CNY pegged currency before a EUR pegged currency.

This leaves the question of supporting an inflation adjusted currency. Perhaps the most practical way to do this would be to introduce the currency at US dollar parity. Then watch for the monthly Consumer Price Index figures provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the United States. On a specific day of the month, the monthly change reported alters the level of the peg. Inflation revisions would need to be included as well. If the price level rises 0.1% in the course of the month then the peg is raised 0.1%, such as from 1 to 1.001 USD. There are many, especially in the broader Bitcoin community, who understand the erosion of buying power of central bank money to be unethical and immoral. This currency would appeal to them. Under the assumption that inflation is more common than deflation, it may also provide users with better purchasing power. I suspect news of Nu issuing an inflation adjusted currency would bring more positive media attention to us initially than issuing a CNY pegged currency. However, my guess is that use of an inflation adjusted currency will be less than a CNY pegged currency at first. Conversely, it possible that an inflation adjusted currency will become the most popular currency we support over the long term. My guess it will take years to acquire that top spot, however.

I am quite curious to see what others will say about the choices we face regarding supporting additional currencies and I am sure important factors will be raised that I haven’t considered yet. So, what does everyone think about these questions:

  1. Should we support additional currencies?
  2. Which one should we add first?
  3. How much liquidity will be needed and it is feasible to acquire it at a cost that makes business sense?
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[Passed] Motion to introduce new NuBits products
[Poll] Which Currency Should Nu Support?
#2

Yes

There will be a difference in usage. Where as I expect that the Euro peg would be more used in wallets and a CNY pegged coin would of more interest for traders. Given that trading is currently more than 90% of NBT usage, tend to agree that a CNY pegged coin should have priority over an Euro pegged coin. Having said that usage will provide profits in the form of transactions, trading won’t provide any profits to NuShareholders, but will do to BKS Shareholders.

Regarding an inflation adjusted coin, there is the question whether we are betting on the long term or the short term. I tend to go for the longer term investment which would also be innovative and ground breaking. There will also be more risk and less initial income as its usage will stay behind. And for starters the question whether we should use the US CPI and not the Chinese or European CPI or even a weighted average of all of them and maybe others. It would be a foreign coin for everyone in the world as it is not 1:1 pegged to anything. But very exciting! Not sure if we can afford it though.

I’m failing to come up with substantiated numbers. It would probably get a good start with half the liquidity Nu has now and can grow quickly when the uptake is high. When choosing CNY that is likely to cost money for a while. We will have to work on a CNYDroid :wink: or other usage beyond trading to make sure we can get some transaction fees. Again BKS could be helping out here.

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#3

I’m interested in starting the discussion of creating a NuEuro. I think the crypto development space is much more friendly here, and the ability to use cryto is far more common than other markets outside of the USA. I’m hoping that creating a local asset would interest more European developers to take a look, and see more use of the network.

I would also like to see the trustless liquidity pools attract more attention and use before implementation of managing a second peg. I don’t think we’re quite ready yet, but by the time details and development arises for this new asset we could be there.

I think another aspect people need to consider is the immediate globalization of the project. With creating an asset that targets a specific nation (or group of nations in the case of NuEuro) there will be a great need for people to support projects, services, and people who would want to use that asset. If someone doesn’t speak English and submits a proposal will there be enough users to translate and assist all other shareholders in deciding if it should pass? Even though American NuShares holders would probably never have an interest or need for a NuEuro, all of a sudden their network needs are of great concern in maintaining a foreign peg.

Does China also suffer from the “we’re a large country with one language, so who needs to learn another one?” mentality that blankets much of the USA? I’m not familiar with the language dynamics there. I’ve found it uncommon to meet a European who speaks less than three languages in at least a light conversational level. English being a core.

I think we may have access to more users and developers that will have an easier time collaborating through the pivotal event of launching a new pegged asset for NuNet by starting with a NuEuro. If everything goes well and liquidity can continue to be supported I think launching a NuCNY or other pegged currencies would be rather easy.

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#4

There can be many hidden traps in adopting CNY. It’s an active market, but just last month the Chinese government made up some accusations to prosecute short-selling, and forbade many funds from simply selling, in an attempt to save the tanking stock market. They are ready to flush any pretense of due process down the drain, at all levels of government, in situations where even Uncle Sam wouldn’t consider measures that are nearly as drastic.

#5

Very good point with variable Tx fees coming out.

  1. Not yet
  2. EUR
  3. Not yet, but a 50% target is a good level for the economic fork when it happens

Basically, I’m going to reiterate @CoinGame that we aren’t ready yet. We need B&C and Nu 2.0 to settle down a tad. It’s good to talk about and even pass a motion for, but it should not be high on the priority list.

I am worried that we have too many units of account. NBT, NSR, BKS, BKC are core, then BTC and PPC are distribution coins. This close to the B&C fork, all 6 of those coins are wrapped up in this one ball of crypto beauty. We need to give the community a moment to digest it.

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#6

I like the foresight of having another currency being issued by Nu.

But I share @CoinGame’s and @Nagalim’s view.
It’s not the right point of time.

The dev team is busy with BCE. Nu 2.0 is not productive. NBT is mainly used for hedging. I doubt that Nu wants to pay even more than it already does by issuing another currency and reaching out to new markets with new exchanges.

I’d rather see Nu being mainly supporting NBT/USD (or maybe USD/fiat) pairs before another currency is introduced and makes things more complicated.

I think NBT need to have reached the status currency (and not only hedging instrument) before creating another token.

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#7

I am not quite in favor of a Nu currency pegged to CNY because I highly doubt if it will be appreciated. The PRC government has offcially announced it illegal to use cryptocurrrencies such as bitcoin as a currency. No business can legally accept BTC as a payment. The Chinese society is still a largely “cash society”. Cash is often more anonymous than cryptocurrencies. Financial institutions are forbidden to deal with cryptoexchanges. Exchanges can still trade cryptocurrencies in the legal sense as if they are trading stamps. This situation makes it impossible for Nu to offer a useful cryptocurrency to be used as if it is the Yuan.

Ironically it’s very easy to deposit/withdraw Yuan to/from cryptoexchanges via a very active and convenient third party (the user and the bank being the first and the second party) payment network ecosystem. The Yuan can flow in and out of exchanges faster than the confirmation times of Nubits. NuYuan is unlikely able to compete with the Yuan for hedging purposes.

BTC and LTC have high trading volume in Chinese exchanges simply because there are limited investment channels for the new Chinese riches, which consequently seek all sort of speculation/investment venues – from realestate to jade to stamps to commodities, to antiques, to cryptocurrencies. This kind of smart money don’t particularly like cryptocurrencies more than gem stones.

However I tend to leave the choices to the market.

So I have the questiion, what is the cost of creating another currency like Nubits, not counting pegging operations cost? Why can’t we create both NuEuro and NuYuan and let the LPCs and traders and merchants and end users decide? After three months we review the situation and close the weaker one?

As for the inflation adjusted currency, it will certainly be ground breaking. However it will push down the price of NSR at the rate of inflation (think the relation between pool C and D of NuLagoon.)

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#8

suggested read of this discussion before posting here : Poll: (Closed) When we are ready for a second coin, which type should be the first to launch?

Depending on what we aim to achieve with a second currency, we must find the optimal choice.

If we aim at releasing the most possible “stable” currency out there, I’d advocate for pegging to an index that refers to basket of currencies.

A good candidate is IMF Special Drawing Rights (SDR), or the Wolrd Currency Unit (WCU) .

#9

what was the outcome of that poll?

#10

I’ll keep it short:

Yes, we should eventually evolve this business to a second peg. I’m not in favor of a CNY pair, mainly because of the reasons presented by @mhps.

An inflation resilient basket of goods is a brilliant idea, but I’m not sure there are enough consumers (yet.)
My first choice would be NuEuro but, as many mentioned before, not now.

Maybe we’re going a bit off topic here but, what would you like to see here?
Higher liquidity targets? Lower liquidity targets?
Higher rates? Lower rates?
More users = more spread of liquidity providers?

To my mind, BTC pairs are pretty well used already, so we gained some traction there in the past 4 months.
As for fiat pairs: I know that in terms of liquidity cost and risks this is our place to be, but the users don’t seem too fond of them or the exchanges on which those pairs are traded. CCEDKs USD/NBT pair looks quite good though.

#11

Speaking to Fiat Pairs…I agree this is where we need to be. But more people need to use CCEDK. We provide the liquidity, but there is little volume on the rest of the exchange.

Example, I provide the majority of the liquidity for the EUR/NBT pair. So people often sell their NBT and I’m left holding a bunch of EUR. Now I can’t exchange my EUR for NBT because I’m the only one buying. I can’t exchange my EUR for BTC without a 5-8% loss because there’s no market for it.

So, while all the liquidity looks good - there number of adopters and overall market is still small.

This needs to change.

#12

Yes, and your points are good, but I feel that this increasing overall use of CCEDK is out of our hands.

#13

Nothing specific on that end. I just think our community is rather small and the liquidity pools would be better supported if there was more exposure. Given that people can move in and out of them like PoW mining there are benefits and drawbacks.

#14

sorry back to point of topic.

I would love to see NU take on more pairs. But to dovetail with what I said - I agree with others that Nu needs to grow its base first.

Once B&C hits - I believe that will happen.

#15
  1. As a chinese, my cryptocurrency investment rule is "keep away from chinese element ". A too powerful Government, a too speculating trading atmosphere and fake exchange trade volume(perhaps except btc-china and btc38). All these are harmful/poisonous.

I am a long term value investor.

  1. I strongly suggest to promote BKC as an anti-infaltion currency. When B&C in operation, we destroy BKC every day, this give us ability to slowly raise the buying back price of BKC.

Perhaps BKC transaction may occupy blochchain size which is designed for B&C trading information. But a BKC cloud wallet on B&C is ultimate resolution.

An anti infaltion curerency can be loose pegged, long term BKC holders DON’T care the 1.2$buy to 1.3$ sell wall gap in 2020. And a “proper” infaltion rate is not the most accurate but should be the most welcomed rate on free market, this is business, you know what I mean.

In this way, we can still keep system simple and robust.

#16

The anti inflation currency, BKC is here. LOL Without any burden on Nu. Since BKS anti infaltion, buy-sell wall spread accepted, and that’s the revenue resource for BKC LPCs.

BKC, a profitable company(B&C) issued anti inflation money.

I am going to become BKC LPC without demand for a single penny, IF BKS holders decide to loose peg BKC, anti infaltion.

I’ll operate from 0.9 to 1.0$ with 5000USD liquidity in the first month and see the result.

#17

This was the case with usd/nbt a while ago. It seems that there is a healthy demand for NBT from people with the Euro.

#18

Hope it is from NuDroid users spending coins. If that is indeed the case a NuEuro currency would be more profitable in the short term. It is hard to tie that demand to NuDroid though. Maybe it is just someone getting rid of their Euros :smile:

BTW Most likely the addition of some liquidity on the CCEDK NBT/BTC pair in the next 48 hours would help to create some more trading opportunities to keep the fiat pair balanced.

1 Like
#19

Looking forward to it.

#20

So people often sell their NBT and I’m left holding a bunch of EUR.

I don’t understand. Do you mean people sell EUR and you’re left holding EUR?