Release and support Chinese NuBits immediately

[Phoenix]

Why now?

Shareholders have already approved and directed that Chinese NuBits be created and supported in a motion passed some time ago. This was not yet implemented due to the high cost and complexity of providing decentralized liquidity. The reorganization of liquidity operations makes it affordable for liquidity operations to support additional currencies immediately. With small upfront costs and initial ongoing liquidity expenses expected to be less than the approximately $600 per month being spent to support US-NBT, it is very affordable to do at this point.

What needs to be done:

1. Change the reference client so the interface and RPCs support Chinese NuBits, European NuBits and SDR NuBits. A protocol change is not needed. @sigmike can you comment on what type of effort and expense it would take to complete changes to support CH-NBT, EU-NBT and X-NBT? How long would it take to complete it? We could use the established methods of paying for development, if you wish.

2. Change NuBot to support multiple currencies. @desrever or @woolly_sammoth, can you comment on the effort, expense and time needed to modify NuBot to support CH-NBT, EU-NBT and X-NBT? Is there a significant difference in time and expense to only support CH-NBT vs. all three new currencies?

3. I believe only very minor changes to NuLagoon Tube are needed to support Chinese NuBits. Mainly NuLagoon Tube just needs a version of NuBot that supports Chinese NuBits. Supporting multiple currencies later might take additional development. @henry what can you tell us about the readiness of NuLagoon Tube to support CH-NBT? What it would it take to make that happen?

4. Get exchange support.

This will show our system works and our approach is very viable. This will increase confidence in our network, which will aid our continued efforts to support US-NBT. This is an important method of supporting US-NBT.

Being the first DAO, we are bold pioneers in blockchain governance. Due to a lack of experience with blockchain governance as a result of our novel design, we had a governance crisis that began in late May. We have resolved the issues that caused the governance crisis with our changes in the structure of liquidity operations. Costs are down dramatically while effectiveness is way up. It is simultaneously a chance to demonstrate our system is currently sound, as well as the best way to dig ourselves out of the unauthorized and senseless default imposed on US-NBT holders by the rebels at that time.

[backpacker]

pegging to BTC again?

ps. do you hope that chinese users won’t read this forum or what?

[Cybnate]

pegging to BTC again?

On Poloniex only for sure. It is a pity, so much missed opportunities. It is not a bad idea in itself, problem is the approach and the confidence levels remaining in phoenix. @phoenix, just start with leaving out that last part of the last sentence. Unless you want to run it all by yourself of course…

If you are serious you should also consider to get an CN-NBT (edit) instance of NuDroid. Instead of multicurrency that can also be a clone to start with. Only some minor code changes and some cosmetic changes required.

[jooize]

Remember that it’s CN‑NBT, not CH which is the country code for Switzerland.

I’m attracted to the idea of storing Tier 2 in USD on exchange.

Gateway with built-in USD reserve

The following describes how a gateway with a build-in 90% USD reserve (and with reduced exchange risks) works. Nu sends 10000 Nubits to the sell side of the gateway The gateway sells Nubits to customers and accumulates bitcoin on the buy side order book Once the buyside has more than 1000+B NBT worth of BTC, it converts B NBT of BTC to the USD token on the exchange. B is a settable parameter. Once the buyside has less than 1000-B NBT worth of BTC, it converts B NBT of the USD tokens to BTC an…

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It is simultaneously a chance to demonstrate our system is currently sound, as well as the best way to dig ourselves out of the unauthorized and senseless default imposed on US-NBT holders by the rebels at that time.

However true this is, I believe you’d gain more respect by referring to the actions by FLOT in more compassionate terms. You apparently have a lot of influence or power in Nu, and it’d do us all good for you to avoid hostility with the community. Even though I find the community to be reacting inappropriately.

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To the rest of the community, I wish we could work together and try to accomplish something instead of complaining about the unfortunate situation we’re in. It’s not all entirely @JordanLee’s or @Phoenix’s fault. Nu as an entity is in majority support of most of @Phoenix’s ideas, but he’s not uninfluenceable. Accept that the network is moving this direction and work with it.

Using Bitcoin seems to be our main problem according to those who doubt the sustainability. Which alternative approaches may be available to us in order to reduce the issues with its volatility?

Beyond that, what economic problems remain for a new pegged currency? We make money on NuBit sales, pay money for management (currently in NuShares), and there’s the risks of exchange default and improper handling.

[Phoenix]

To move this forward, I am considering offering a reward for its implementation.

I would create some specifications in line with what the shareholder motion requires. Simply stated though, it is just user interface and RPC level support of Chinese NuBits, EU-NBT and X-NBT (SDR). Then we see who steps forward to implement it.

About the symbol for Chinese NuBits: the passed motion presents the symbol as CH-NBT. @jooize has suggested CN-NBT, noting that CH is the country code for Switzerland. This is a marketing decision and is not technical in nature, so we ought to be able to determine the right choice by getting input from forum participants. If it controversial, we may need to use the blockchain to determine the best abbreviation. I will start with a poll about the matter on this forum.

[jooize]

We have graphics already made for CN‑NBT. It makes no sense at all to use anything else and really shouldn’t be controversial, but if we need to establish consensus for it, we should.

— Announcement: New NuBits logos/branding complete (2016)

[sigmike]

A protocol change is not needed.

New currencies cannot be added without a protocol change.

[Phoenix]

I have progress to report.

@woolly_sammoth has agreed to begin implementing the changes needed in NuBot to support CN-NBT, EU-NBT and X-NBT.

@henry had already indicated a willingness to support CN-NBT on NuLagoon Tube.

This makes the most urgent and necessary remaining issue the changes in the core client. A single developer who will commit to and take responsibility for coding and releasing multi-currency support is needed. The liquidity operations team will fund this development using proceeds from the sale of NSR. We will pay in BTC or US-NBT. We can compensate the developer on an hourly or per deliverable basis. Time is of the essence, so let’s hurry. Let’s spread the word about this need. Anyone who refers a successful candidate will receive 10% of what we pay the developer. @cryptog and @crypto_coiner could you help us as you have in the past?

To all qualified developers, whether you have worked with this project in the past or not, please consider taking on this task. You can explore the possibility further by posting in this thread, sending me a PM on the forum, or a Bitmessage at BM-2cTGJU5aGUfEXWNHDAeJNCGLYUwYikf88q.

[cryptog]

Yes I can help.
@crypto_coiner probably too.
I will start digging around for suitable candidates.

[Phoenix]

I have had one developer and another recruiter for a developer contact me about the doing the multicurrency support in the core client.

As you can see, @woolly_sammoth is taking direct responsibility for the NuBot changes. I am only taking responsibility for paying him. I would like to do something similar with the core client changes. We need a dev who will come on the forum, win the confidence of shareholders and be accountable directly. I can’t be responsible for what that dev does or doesn’t do. I am willing to be responsible for compensating him, however.

So, I hope the two developers who are interested will come here and speak with the community about what they are offering. Compensation can be privately arranged. It might be good to have both devs working on different aspects of the release. I am happy to help however I can, by helping define requirements, for instance, but I won’t take any responsibility for the development. That needs to be taken on by someone else.

[backpacker]

I am interested in this project as a developer, although from business point of view it is probably best to have a new blockchain for CN-NBT project, it would reduce costs of development, integration and testing, not mentioning faster replication of blockchain for new nodes.

If shareholders insist that best way forward would be to introduce multicurrency support into current project, protocol change would have to be planned for and hard fork will happen in due time, after majority of nodes upgrade to new version.

NuDroid would have to be modified heavily as well to work with new currencies.

[Eleven]

Hi Phonix, I am interested in the CN-NBT project. I can do it about 4 hours per day, so it will be better if I and the other dev work on different aspects of the release. Also I am happy to do that.

[mhps]

Chinese yuan is softly pegged to the USD so I don’t see how fundamentally CN-NBT is more useful than US-NBT as a stable value cryptocurrency.

The peg is soft and people are widely expecting CNY to lose value against the USD so it doesn’t make sense to hold CN-NBT as a value store.

In China Alipay and Wechat and a whole lot of minor on-line payment methods make instant paying electronically a few taps away for everyone with a smart phone. The big players are centralised but too big to fail so no one worries about their going insolvent practically. So I don’t see any cryptos’ edge as a payment method for normal people.

These make CN-NBT mostly a speculation tool for traders in exchanges.

Using a shadow CNY in China is highly risky so exchanges maybe more reluctant to adopt CN-NBT than US-NBT. Without exchanges support pegging through liquidity ops is highly difficult for Nu.

There are two kinds of Yuan – CNY and CNH, which is CN-NBT going to peg to?

So I don’t see CN-NBT a good idea. Implementing and pegging of it will be a drag to Nu recovery.

[Phoenix]

First of all, I want to thank @mhps for this thoughtful, informative and helpful post.

Chinese yuan is softly pegged to the USD so I don’t see how fundamentally CN-NBT is more useful than US-NBT as a stable value cryptocurrency.

The peg is soft and people are widely expecting CNY to lose value against the USD so it doesn’t make sense to hold CN-NBT as a value store.

There are plenty of reasons to have both US-NBT and CN-NBT and they differ in a number of important regards. BitShares released BitCNY quite a while after BitUSD, yet there are nearly 3 times as many BitCNY in circulation as BitUSD (by USD value). That is a compelling argument for potential demand for CN-NBT relative to US-NBT.

In practice at least initially, there will be many important differences between US-NBT and CN-NBT besides the peg price. CN-NBT will feature segregated 100% reserve, while US-NBT is supported by NSR sales. CN-NBT will have no appreciation potential, while currently a 16% profit can be had on US-NBT with a return of the peg.

In China Alipay and Wechat and a whole lot of minor on-line payment methods make instant paying electronically a few taps away for everyone with a smart phone. The big players are centralised but too big to fail so no one worries about their going insolvent practically. So I don’t see any cryptos’ edge as a payment method for normal people.

Our target market will be crypto traders. It is a very niche market. I accept that the average Chinese consumer won’t find a use for CN-NBT any time soon. All we need is a small percentage of the Chinese crypto trading market to make our product an initial success.

Using a shadow CNY in China is highly risky so exchanges maybe more reluctant to adopt CN-NBT than US-NBT. Without exchanges support pegging through liquidity ops is highly difficult for Nu.

NuLagoon Tube will probably be the first place CN-NBT is traded. We will have to work as a community to gain support elsewhere. It can be done. BitCNY is listed on Poloniex.

There are two kinds of Yuan – CNY and CNH, which is CN-NBT going to peg to?

Let’s set up a poll and also get the advise of informed individuals.

So I don’t see CN-NBT a good idea. Implementing and pegging of it will be a drag to Nu recovery.

While I found your post useful, I disagree with your conclusion. It won’t cost that much, will do much to inspire confidence, both in our ability to keep a peg and that we are in this for the long term. It is a useful experiment to gauge how consumers feel about the segregated 100% reserve we are using.

It will support the NSR price, which in turn will support the US-NBT price.

[Financisto]

I don’t think now is the right timing for launching alt NuBits.

Lauching CN-NBT before restablishing the US-NBT’s peg will only fuel FUD and help trolls harm (even more) this community’s work.

IMHO regaining trust and making Nu reliable again must be the priority before launching CN-NBT.

As they say in the markets: “A credit issue is a serious trust problem”…

[Phoenix]

Lauching CN-NBT before restablishing the US-NBT’s peg will only fuel FUD and help trolls harm (even more) this community’s work.

IMHO regaining trust and making Nu reliable again must be the priority before launching CN-NBT.

I understand what you are saying and that it might bring some skepticism. With a segregated 100% reserve, a fully functional liquidity engine and me as Chief of Liquidity Operations, the CN-NBT peg will be very secure.

It will demonstrate the blended reserve and liquidity engine model works well, just as it always has in the past, except when those in control of funds utterly refused to employ any part of the reserve or liquidity engine model. The results we saw in June have nothing to do with our model. With those rogue actors no longer in control, we can be confident nothing like that will ever happen again in our network.

Part of the reason we ought to do this now is that I am confident it will help us regain the US-NBT peg. It will show we are growing and expanding as opposed to shutting down. As CN-NBT is supported successfully, it will increase the value of NSR. This increased NSR price can in turn be used to support the US-NBT price. While CN-NBT won’t help US-NBT on the level of tier 4 reserves, because they are to be segregated for CN-NBT, the tier 6 reserves (NSR sales) are necessarily blended. Strength in CN-NBT will give strength to US-NBT through the shared NSR price.

I have proceeded with this endeavor because shareholders already passed a motion to support CN-NBT long ago. Some might argue today’s circumstances are different and that shareholders no longer support the release of CN-NBT. I doubt that is true, but perhaps additional community support and unity could be had by passing a new motion that mandates these new currencies.

Should I advance a new motion for releasing CN-NBT?

[mhps]

All we need is a small percentage of the Chinese crypto trading market to make our product an initial success.

NuLagoon Tube will probably be the first place CN-NBT is traded.

NuLagoon Tube probably won’t cut it as one only need to have BTC to buy CN-NBT. The Chinese have no advantage in it.

A CN-NBT/CNY market in China is recommended to let local traders inject/extract CNY fund at dead 1:1, enabling instant crypoi’ization of their Yuan with no volatility risk and spread. Although there is no volatility issue in this market, but exchange risk cannot be ignored. The hyper active Chinese crypto trading scene does have transparency issues. A local custodian who can manage a tier 3 of ~$10kUDS worth of Yuan is perhaps called for to keet a large amount of fund off-exchange.

If CN-NBT/BTC market is again to become the dominant market, a gateway with a built-in reserve is highly recommended or “100% reserve” will come at a high cost or low fund-utilization-ratio.

[Financisto]

While CN-NBT won’t help US-NBT on the level of tier 4 reserves, because they are to be segregated for CN-NBT, the tier 6 reserves (NSR sales) are necessarily blended. Strength in CN-NBT will give strength to US-NBT through the shared NSR price.

Now I see your point: one helps the other via NSR sales.

A CN-NBT/CNY market in China is recommended to let local traders inject/extract CNY fund at dead 1:1, enabling instant crypoi’ization of their Yuan with no volatility risk and spread. Although there is no volatility issue in this market, but exchange risk cannot be ignored. The hyper active Chinese crypto trading scene does have transparency issues. A local custodian who can manage a tier 3 of ~$10kUDS worth of Yuan is perhaps called for to keet a large amount of fund off-exchange.

Would this supply of fiat be easy to manage against a (possible) voracious demand for CN-NBT?

[mhps]

Would this supply of fiat be easy to manage against a (possible) voracious demand for CN-NBT?

I don’t know. A custodian uses own fund, which could make such custodian difficult or expensive to find. Nu could have a gateway on one of the exchanges in China. Gateway operator manages shareholders fund so it’s easier to recruit one. The operator would need to take excess CNY off exchange to mitigate exchange risk.

Anyway that is one part of effort I was referring to which Nu has to commit to have CN-NBT. I don’t know how exactly a trader-oriented CN-NBT benefits Nu. With 100% reserve Nu can’t even do buyback or dividends. Maintaining peg in CN-NBT/BTC is money-losing. We have seen that movie before and we know how it ends.

[Financisto]

Nu could have a gateway on one of the exchanges in China. Gateway operator manages shareholders fund so it’s easier to recruit one. The operator would need to take excess CNY off exchange to mitigate exchange risk.

It reminds me the (symbiotic) way that Tether + Poloniex work…