Shareholders may decide to stop the fund raising in order to increase the value of shares and resume it when necessary. In fact, I think we should do it. We do not need additional funding at this stage.
B&C exchange may receive quite some revenue, this can be used for software development.
Those people donate more BKC revenue to community, get more vote as reputed signers, is this OK?
Some BKS holders may choose to keep dividend(sale of BKC) and donate none, but they will probably get excluded from reputed signers.
Thanks for sharing -
Do you have some concrete numerical projections as for the profits/dividends and the timeline for Blockshare business performance?
If you are not a Nushareholder, I would be curious to know why too.
I come to a different conclusion: NSR holders didn’t have enough money left to fund BCE by buying additional NSR while having to buy and hold NSR to fund BCE wasn’t attractive enough to gather enough money from outside Nu.
This part in bold letters is the fact. The part in italic letters a speculation.
I can’t tell how the feedback by PM to your offer is, but I wouldn’t be very surprised it not too many were willing to sell now and that price.
They might agree with what you said:
After all NSR holders did receive BKS “for free”. They lose 0.011 BTC each (the explanation for that price comes soon) if they don’t sell now. But what is 0.011 BTC/BKS compared to the potential it offers? I’ll come back later in this topic to BCE’s potential.
The next is not strictly true:
As BCE is being created from Nu 2.0 code it should have an embedded function to create BKS at shareholders’ will to fund additional development - whenever it makes sense for the BKS holders to do that.
That would allow to burn unsold BKS now and create them later with a BKS grant.
The sale can continue once the demand is high enough to sell BKS at above $4 
Right! And the higher the price, the better for the perception of BCE’s total value!
I’m raising my offer for up to 200 BKS from 0.0105 BTC/BKS to 0.011 BTC/BKS. The rest of the terms remains unchanged.
I haven’t received a confirmation from @tomjoad that he would be willing to provide this offer with escrow. I need to say that I only hold up this offer, if @tomjoad, or another reputable community member offers escrow.
Count me in! I’m willing to sell up to 20 BKS at 7.5 NBT/BKS each. Escrow required like for my buy offer.
I come to the same conclusion about BCE being the world’s safest online wallet:
That and a lot of other unique features are the reason why the BKS holders would be wise to stop selling BKS at $4 until something can be seen and people start to believe in BCE.
The funding for the basic functions has been achieved.
Calling the sale off makes more sense than continuing it at the moment.
Once BCE is up and running and people are overwhelmed by it, the price per BKS can easily be way above $4!
I’m going to prepare a draft for a motion to take that into regard:
-
either halt the auction until a certain milestone has been reached
-
e.g. order messages are available at BCE
-
the first fill has been completed
-
whatever seems appropriate and likely to reach consensus
-
or adjust the BKS auction price to a level above the current level. This could be a viable way to prevent the BKS from plummeting once BKS reaches exchanges.
It’s correct - why should anybody pay above $4.08 if that’s the price for which they can be obtained at the BKS auction for $4.08? Only people who want buy less than the minimum BKS batch (“Minimum total purchase is 500 USD”) would be willing to pay $4.08 or more at an exchange.
But what happens to the price level at exchanges if the BKS sale is not continued at $4.08, but for $6?
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What’s stopping us from voting with BKS? Just the permanence of the blockchain and the lack of a block explorer?
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We can already prepare the necessary steps.
Have a look here:
edit: for those being curious - motions are already supported by the bce blockchain and the client:
bcexchanged getmotions
{
"7320612074657374206d6f74696f6e2068617368" : {
"blocks" : 13,
"block_percentage" : 0.13,
"sharedays" : 298,
"shareday_percentage" : 0.16528101
},
"e6f43c58bc73bb77243269f53cd3dec4cd44d87a" : {
"blocks" : 9,
"block_percentage" : 0.09,
"sharedays" : 192,
"shareday_percentage" : 0.10648978
}
}
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I’m happy to provide escrow to anyone who requires it. My rate is 1 BKS per transaction.
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Thank you very much. Your offer is highly appreciated.
Never having processed transactions via escrow before I wonder - what’s the standard procedure for the escrow fee.
I assume it’s split 50/50 between buyer and seller; at least that sounds fair.
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[quote=“Sabreiib, post:21, topic:2477, full:true”]
B&C exchange may receive quite some revenue, this can be used for software development. [/quote]
Eventually it will, however until the exchange is live and running decent volume no revenue is generated only costs.
I agree fund raising should stop when enough funds are raised and revenue is coming in. Not at this moment however. I’ll explain in a later post below.
[quote=“crypto_coiner, post:22, topic:2477, full:true”]
Thanks for sharing -
Do you have some concrete numerical projections as for the profits/dividends and the timeline for Blockshare business performance?[/quote]
Numerical projections are of course purely speculation however I don’t mind sharing mine. The top 5 exchanges at the moment are running over 2 million easily in daily volume in USD on all coins combined (bitcoin generates the majority of volume obviously). I believe B&C Exchange could eventually become a serious exchange which should make it to the top 5. But for argument sake lets stay conservative and say after like a year B&C Exchange manages to run over 1 million USD in daily volume. On most exchanges roughly 0.20/0.25% fee per transaction is charged. Let’s say we charge people 0.15% fee per transaction. This means that with 1 million in volume we generate 0.15% x 1.000.000 = 1500 USD a day in profit.
We distribute this profit evenly among shareholders in BTC dividends. This means that if you have a 1000 Blockshares (assuming all are sold and no new ones are created) you are holding 1000/212500 (total number of shares) x 100% = 0,47% ownership of the exchange. This entitles you to 0,47% of the 1500 daily profit. This would mean 1500 x 0,47% = 7,05 dollar worth of BTC dividends a day. This might not seem much but 7,05 x 365 = 2573,25 dollars a year for an investment which cost you 1000x4= 4000 dollar. That’s a yearly return of 2573,25/4000 x 100% = 64,33% Anyone with experience in investing should know this is an amazing return on your original investment. Not only this but you also actually hold shares which are likely to go up in value increasing the return on your investment by a factor we cannot yet foresee.
Of course the whole project could fail miserably and result in a net 100% loss 
Remember never invest more than you can afford to lose.
On your timeline question my estimate is the following: next 6 months up to 1 year we’ll see the actual development of the exchange (and possible additional features) -----> after 6/12 months exchange is up and running combined with a strong marketing campaign, first revenue starts being generated -------> 6 months later volume has steadily been increasing -----> after 2 years personal target of 1 million daily volume in USD is achieved, also first revenue from wallet service is being generated ------> 1 year later B&C Exchange is now among the top 5 of exchanges with well over 2 million in daily volume.
Note my timeline is absolute speculation, it’s nothing more than my best guess.
I honestly wasn’t aware of the whole Nu project until very recently when I learned of B&C Exchange. Also when I learned of the exchange the action of BKS trough buying NSR was already cancelled. If I had been around earlier I would have bid on NSR to gain BKS.
I am however currently involved with Nubits as a liquidity provider.
3 Likes
This might have been the case I’m not sure, but the result is the same no funds for BKS.
[quote]I can’t tell how the feedback by PM to your offer is, but I wouldn’t be very surprised it not too many were willing to sell now and that price.
They might agree with what you said: [/quote]
Those who are looking to sell now have the option of a guaranteed sale of their sales on a fixed price (which I think is a fair one) or to take a gamble and see if they can get more for their shares on the open market. I think both options are very reasonable. It’s a risk vs reward trade-off. Less risk less reward or more risk and possibly more reward.
It’s a matter whether someone is willing to invest in an experimental start up. It’s just not for everyone, also with the current market I could very well imagine people wanting to sell out as quick as possible, to use those funds for other interesting opportunities. Lots of market movement right now the more funds you have right now combined with a keen trading sense could net you a lot of profit. I myself have contemplated using my funds on other coins (for example LTC/NMC/PPC) and using the profit it might net me to buy addition BKS on the market later on.
[quote]As BCE is being created from Nu 2.0 code it should have an embedded function to create BKS at shareholders’ will to fund additional development - whenever it makes sense for the BKS holders to do that.
That would allow to burn unsold BKS now and create them later with a BKS grant.
The sale can continue once the demand is high enough to sell BKS at above $4 ;)[/quote]
I’m well aware of that but it will mean no funds right now, I’ll explain later why I feel this is important. Also as a shareholder I would be hesitant with generating additional BKS later on. Once we’re at a point they can easily be sold for more than $4 dollar each the exchange is probably already generating revenue. I’d rather have part of that revenue used for additional funds later on instead of diluting existing shares.
[quote]That and a lot of other unique features are the reason why the BKS holders would be wise to stop selling BKS at $4 until something can be seen and people start to believe in BCE.
The funding for the basic functions has been achieved.
Calling the sale off makes more sense than continuing it at the moment.
Once BCE is up and running and people are overwhelmed by it, the price per BKS can easily be way above $4!
I’m going to prepare a draft for a motion to take that into regard:
-
either halt the auction until a certain milestone has been reached
-
e.g. order messages are available at BCE
-
the first fill has been completed
-
whatever seems appropriate and likely to reach consensus
-
or adjust the BKS auction price to a level above the current level. This could be a viable way to prevent the BKS from plummeting once BKS reaches exchanges.
It’s correct - why should anybody pay above $4.08 if that’s the price for which they can be obtained at the BKS auction for $4.08? Only people who want buy less than the minimum BKS batch (“Minimum total purchase is 500 USD”) would be willing to pay $4.08 or more at an exchange.
But what happens to the price level at exchanges if the BKS sale is not continued at $4.08, but for $6?[/quote]
This is where we completely disagree, I’ll also post my reasoning in your draft proposal topic.
Essentially my reasoning comes down to this, you can only make a first impression once so let’s try and make the best one? I think it would be much much better for B8C Exchange if we could launch it with additional features which have not been funded yet. Mainly a fully-fledged online wallet function, which could be a selling point of equal footing to being a decentralized exchange. And also a mobile app for both the wallet and exchange functions.
Just imagine if we could launch the exchange as both an 100% decentralized exchange as well as world’s safest online wallet, complete with mobile support for android and IOS. A wallet which is not only the safest online wallet but which would allow instant trading in the same app on your phone on world’s safest exchange with funds directly coming from your wallet without the need of having to transfer them to an exchange account. And all of this in 1 app. Now if we could get this up and running on release of the exchange I just can’t even imagine the success it will have. This is like every traders dream, or at least as a trader it’s my dream
Now I’m sure we need a lot of extra funding for this to become reality which is why in my opinion we NEED to sell the remaining Blockshares. Sell those shares now, maybe even cheaper than the current rate or in some kind of sale format where the more you buy the cheaper you get them. Like say 4% discount for every 1000 BKS you buy up to like 40% discount if you buy 10000 BKS. With the goal of generating additional funds so we can launch not a basic version of world’s first decentralized exchange but we can launch world’s best, safest, decentralized exchange and wallet all in 1 convenient package, including mobile support.
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The fee model of BCE will be solely based on the size of transactions (order, deposit, withdraw, etc.) and not on processed value. It will be hard to adjust them to a fee per trading volume. But I appreciate your efforts in an estimation of BCE revenue.
Have a look here if you are interested in my take of BCE’s fee structure: [Passed] Motion to provide seed funding for B&C Exchange - a decentralized exchange built on the Peershares platform.
This post contains no numbers, but a concept.
BKS would be generated if the money from selling them would be needed. If a part of the BCE revenue would per motion be used to pay bills, it would be ok as well.
Why is this a reason to sell BKS cheap now, ignore the different risk seed investors and early funders have and keep the sell pressure from the ~50,000 BKS on the market price?
As soon as multi signature deposits are possible and the first website offers convenient access to the BCE blockchain you already have that.
There’s no need to develop apps for different mobile phones - they have a browser! The website should have a fancy mobile version for that
If no website starts offering such a service (likely for a fee), it would be more transparent to create a grant for funding exactly that: a website funded and and operated by BCE with a fancy mobile version; this way BCE can even collect the fees from the website 
I don’t think so. Even if BCE does, the BKS holders can vote for a BKS grant to create and sell BKS to fund it (see above). There’s no need to sell BKS cheap now or soon and especially not for the same price if the risk has been dramatically reduced by showing the world the first working iterations of BCE that can process orders.
If you really think that BCE needs a lot more money, buy BKS from BCE before a motion passes that stops the sale
2 Likes
[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:30, topic:2477, full:true”]The fee model of BCE will be solely based on the size of transactions (order, deposit, withdraw, etc.) and not on processed value. It will be hard to adjust them to a fee per trading volume. But I appreciate your efforts in an estimation of BCE revenue.
Have a look here if you are interested in my take of BCE’s fee structure: [Passed] Motion to provide seed funding for B&C Exchange - a decentralized exchange built on the Peershares platform.
This post contains no numbers, but a concept.[/quote]
As is my understanding would it not be possible to require additional BKC for a transaction based on the size of that transaction? Thus approximating a percentage fee like 0.15%? So one would have a flat rate minimum but for larger transactions it would require additional BKC.
[quote]BKS would be generated if the money from selling them would be needed. If a part of the BCE revenue would per motion be used to pay bills, it would be ok as well.
Why is this a reason to sell BKS cheap now, ignore the different risk seed investors and early funders have and keep the sell pressure from the ~50,000 BKS on the market price?[/quote]
Personally I would find it less appealing to invest into something where from the get go the intention is to dilute originals shares by generating extra to raise funds. I much rather see revenue from the exchange used for additional funds. It’s a nice idea when you hold X % of shares your relative position will remain unchanged in the future, owning 1% now is owning 1% in 5 years.
Not necessarily sell them cheap now but my whole point is raising additional funds now for extra added functionality to increase future value of the exchange.
[quote]As soon as multi signature deposits are possible and the first website offers convenient access to the BCE blockchain you already have that.
There’s no need to develop apps for different mobile phones - they have a browser! The website should have a fancy mobile version for that
If no website starts offering such a service (likely for a fee), it would be more transparent to create a grant for funding exactly that: a website funded and and operated by BCE with a fancy mobile version; this way BCE can even collect the fees from the website [/quote]
I would prefer dedicated apps and a mobile site over just a mobile site. In general from my experience apps tends to work better on phones. You mean the “account” you’d use for the exchange is already the wallet? I understand but I meant more to give the wallet part its own identity, for example my account on BTC-E is essential a multicoin wallet (although being centralized It is vastly different from what B&C Exchange will offer) but it has no identity as wallet. No easy ways to use it as a wallet with payment options to merchants for example.
[quote]I don’t think so. Even if BCE does, the BKS holders can vote for a BKS grant to create and sell BKS to fund it (see above). There’s no need to sell BKS cheap now or soon and especially not for the same price if the risk has been dramatically reduced by showing the world the first working iterations of BCE that can process orders.
If you really think that BCE needs a lot more money, buy BKS from BCE before a motion passes that stops the sale ;)[/quote]
I hope your right, but honestly I don’t know I have a gut feeling it’s not that easy. Maybe it’s a good idea to get some attention from the dev team and ask their view upon these matters?
Exactly that. But whether you send 1 NBT or 1000 NBT might not be a big difference in the size of the transaction. There’ll be voting for a lot of things that have an influence on the fees like (from the design, page 3):“maximum trade size permitted by asset ID”
Where’s the difference between keeping a 50,000 BKS sell wall now or burning them and creating them again from the perspective of dilution?
Regarding dilution it’s the same.
Economically it makes more sense for BCE to sell the BKS when their value is higher, because BCE is functional to some degree.
Why should BCE waste that extra money?
As soon as BCE generates revenue from selling BKC, it can very well be done this way: make a BKC grant with the intention to fund project X with the income from the BKC sale.
How would such a dedicated app run as trustless as your own BCE website at home on your RaspberryPi?
Why would you want to maintain several apps for several mobile phone operating systems, if a sophisticated mobile version of the website provides access in a more simple and if done properly equally convenient way?
I for one would prefer images for RaspberryPi provided by BCE to host an own “BCE exchange website” over dedicated apps.
I Understand that for us it makes no difference if a transaction is 1 or a 1000 NBT (unless we vary amount of multi sigs required based on transaction size) but if we don’t strive to have an equivalent of a percentage fee we’re in essence either promoting large or small trades. I think it would be best to remain as neutral as possible and thus would prefer something that would be the equivalent of a flat percentage fee.
[quote]Where’s the difference between keeping a 50,000 BKS sell wall now or burning them and creating them again from the perspective of dilution?
Regarding dilution it’s the same.[/quote]
Because if the intent from the start is to dilute shares anything we need funding to some, or at least to me, investing sounds less appealing. I like the idea of having created 212500 shares and not creating new ones in the future unless an emergency comes up.
[quote]Economically it makes more sense for BCE to sell the BKS when their value is higher, because BCE is functional to some degree.
Why should BCE waste that extra money?[/quote]
Because additional funds now will lead to greater value later on due to additional functionality when the exchange go’s live. This is the whole idea behind investing. Sell the shares now so that the additional functionality increases B7C Exchange value later on far outweighing the possible additional funds generated from selling them from a slightly higher price down the road. It’s not wasting extra money but investing it now to increase total value by far more than the extra money generated by selling them slightly more expensive.
This is what to me as an investor sounds great. A business generating profit and dividends. Using part of that profit for additional funding instead of diluting its shares and thereby decreasing there value.
[quote]How would such a dedicated app run as trustless as your own BCE website at home on your RaspberryPi?
Why would you want to maintain several apps for several mobile phone operating systems, if a sophisticated mobile version of the website provides access in a more simple and if done properly equally convenient way?[/quote]
Trust me good looking and well functioning apps for mobile phones are some of the best marketing tools we could use to get widespread adoption of our exchange, even if in essense a good mobile version of a browser site would offer the same functionality. We’re trying to sell the use of this exchange to the masses, keep that in mind.
They’re not mutually exclusive.
Agree.
There are some cryptocurrency projects developers who are dreaming of copying bitcoin’s success by price speculation\bitcoin 2.0 propaganda. They belive a lot of money from nowhere rushing to their project and get enough fund for everything including software developement and marketing.
But their hope usally gone with wind, in their model/ecosystem, if software development demands money, they just issue more cryptos. Bitshares, a perfect example, share price keep going down by dilution.
The key is profit ability, be faithful labors, don’t dream of geting rich over night.
The B&C is quite good because it is probably the first DAC with profit ability in this world.
The cryptocurrency’s potential market is huge, we need to let people be aware of their demands, just like Steve Jobs did, sometimes customers do NOT know their own need.
Build a decentralized exchange,
provide message service(emeth on peermesage)
stop spam email
prevent DDoS attack by charging cryptos
clean those zombie twitter/facebook fans
…
60% information flow on internet is not from human being! If we manage to clean half trash flow rate, our business success beyond my imagination
Could we end the phenomenon of DDoS? If we can, we rewhrite the internet history.
…
For example, in 2020, github website turns on crypto mode which means every customer wanna request service from github have to pay 1NBT to github account in advance on blockchain or B&C online wallet or paypal NBT wallet.
10 minutes passes, customers need to pay another NBT to maintain service, and so on, one day later, after github comfirm these customers are honest customers, they return NBTs to customer’s wallets integrated in browers(IE, safari, chrome).
DDoD attackers will stop their acitvity because they are losing money when github keeps their NBT.
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If you burn 50,000 BKS now and create 50,000 BKS later, you have exactly that.
But if you want to have another $200,000 for development, you need only 40,000 BKS if you can sell them for $5 - see what I mean?
It doesn’t work!
At the moment nobody buys BKS from BCE!
It’s the same for weeks now.
They all wait and want to buy later at a smaller risk or buy now, but below $4 - if that reminds you of something…
If you want to invest, I suggest you buy from BCE now before a motion gets finalized and the sale gets stopped
…are not necessary if a website optimized for mobile devices is made well.
One is quite cheap to develop and provides a trustless website. Which one would you create first?
Or maybe a DigitalOcean droplet? Not as good as a RaPi you have under your physical control, but still better than a foreign website.
Or maybe installer packages for Linux that can be applied to a virtual server?
All of them is cheaper and provides service a level of trust mobile wallet can’t match. You can’t have a complete BCE blockchain on the mobile phone. You need servers to support the lightweight wallet on the mobile phone. You need to trust these…
But I believe my iphone 6s 64G can run complete B&C blockchain and mint.
[quote]If you burn 50,000 BKS now and create 50,000 BKS later, you have exactly that.
But if you want to have another $200,000 for development, you need only 40,000 BKS if you can sell them for $5 - see what I mean?[/quote]
I understand what you mean but as stated earlier I think investing BKS now at a cheaper price outweighs investing them later at a higher price. Timing is everything my friend.
[quote]It doesn’t work!
At the moment nobody buys BKS from BCE!
It’s the same for weeks now.
They all wait and want to buy later at a smaller risk or buy now, but below $4 - if that reminds you of something…[/quote]
I bet if we do a sort of sale with some form of discount or w/e suddenly a lot more interest will be generated. Also if we set the sale to end within say 2 weeks I would bet we suddenly start selling those 50000 as fresh pies out of the oven.
Yet the IPhone vastly inferior to most of its competitors in both ability as price is by far the most successful smartphone out there. Why? Because of niche stuff like appearance, branding etcetc. We need to sell B&C Exchange to the public a mobile app will do wonders in doing so. You severely underestimate the illogic of the public. They choose and use what is easiest and looks best even if it costs a little extra. This is why I think a mobile app would do wonders.
There are maybe some small investors wanna buy less than 500$ BKS when production blockchain available, and there are some big investors wanna buy a lot BKS when CCEDK provide BKS/BTC pairs.
Although I don’t think BKS price will be higher than 4.08$ in a short time, I don’t think it’s cheap either.
I feel iphone responds a bit faster than andriod phones, and that feeling is worth of 300$, in my eyes. LOL