I really don’t know about park rates in the current situation - it’s something different, if it’s about mitigating temporary issues.
Park rates try to postpone the trouble we have (lack of NBT demand) by creating additional trouble (park interest).
Is this really a temporary issue or is it a structural problem?
If it’s the latter, NSR sale is the way to fix it.
…I think it’s a combination of both; we need both: park rates at a reasonable level and NSR sale.
I can’t load teh redeem script to initiate a transaction. cointoolkit suspects that the explorer is down but it is not.
@Dhume, @ttutdxh, @cryptog, @mhps, we soon need to start creating a new NSR multisig address to request a new grant.
It isn’t impossible that the NSR sales push the NSR rate down and we see increasing numbers of NSR that get sold each week.
The rest of the 25 million might last only a few weeks.
Do we use new pubkeys fot that new address or do we want to create a new multisig address by changing the order of the pubkeys we already have?
Do you have scripts disabled in your browser?
Can you use @backpacker’s explorer or Cointoolkit?
It’s not as serious. PArk rate is much smaller than how much we pay LPs. They are not highly comparable but at the end of the day they are both increading of liability.
So far tier 6 NSR sales have raised very little additional reserves. The current process of posting the shares for sale above market and slowly bringing it down is too timid for the circumstances.
For the next sale of shares I’d suggest using a different strategy, here are some options:
Option 1: Start the sale at a point where there are less than 10,000 NSR already for sale. Continue reducing the price until sold.
Option 2: Start the sale at the same price as the last one concluded (0.00000275 BTC/NSR). Continue reducing the price until sold.
Option 3: Start the sale at the same price as the last shares were bought. Continue reducing the price until sold.
Option 4: Sell half the NSR into the buy orders, but the other half for sale whatever the first half concluded at. Continue reducing the price until sold.
Option 5: Sell all the NSR into the buy orders.
Option 1 is most conservative, option 5 the most aggressive. Given the gravity of the situation, I think option 4 is the most prudent course of action.
I’ll also point out that last weeks calculation resulted in:
"Standard < -2500: Sell 4726.93 NBT (9.3535 BTC) amount of NSR next week."
But the share sales stopped after selling only:
"6.9 BTC, at $533 per BTC at the time of writing valued $3,677"
This is more than 25% fewer BTC than the authorization.
That’s how it works.
You calculate a number of NSR, that gets sold per week, based on the NSR market rate.
Whether you can sell all at that rate is a different matter.
The way things are currently worded, it is easy for someone not familiar the intricacies of the system to expect that if 9.3535 BTC worth of NSR were authorized to be sold, when the sale concluded there would be something very close to 9.3535 BTC available. If the intention is rather to sell a certain amount of NSR, then it should be stated that way in the authorization.
“Standard < -2500: Sell XXX NSR next week (worth 9.3535 BTC at current prices)”
That way everyone is clear what the plan is.
We can certainly make it more clear. However, i greatly warn FLOT against automating the NSR spot price. The market is small enough that they should look at the recent trades and market orders directly to manually pick an estimated nsr valuation for the week.
Taking the average rate of the recent sale into consideration is no bad idea either, right?
At least unless there’s trade in the same order of magnitude in between.
But that can be gamed as well: a shareholder/speculator can dump NSR on the market just to increase the amount of NSR for the next sale, hoping to get the shares back at a cheaper rate.
How to really find the “true” rate in such an illiquid market?
In Nu’s NuShare debug window or from shell, run the following.
Requires the latest transaction ID after this transaction is made. Read the guide.
getrawtransaction b24342d957bf8deb5abf7ff19ff06c38520e99ee6a09797c2ed9b3895f09ed19
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
decoderawtransaction 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
{
"txid" : "b24342d957bf8deb5abf7ff19ff06c38520e99ee6a09797c2ed9b3895f09ed19",
"version" : 1,
"time" : 1464446521,
"locktime" : 0,
"unit" : "S",
"vin" : [
{
"txid" : "83c3085592edb4e9e404dd60d1f1d6cff136abbc50a9136cc315eda55fb6ab15",
"vout" : 0,
"scriptSig" : {
"asm" : "0 304402204db74aae2ba58582c738e5f42f748fb5d7ac37c755bc469cf7fdf8410d3fdc2402201bd130869f18f34c828176c09976cc25c4d59df67ff7dd80d163133bb9615b8101 30440220535e8d1638123ca92e9b91e97ad432d9519e14473876c9174b0d34f81aa7f2a702201da45708931b00fba0052d245191604f0692586d747ef33e505505cede99cf4b01 3045022100948691e7bb9717828ee7649615fee7d3e2926ba7e648a306cbf707fa702982e402201f91af1388eb6d6ef1c7ebc9d2aa09be9789b1be28c12caf784db68f9bb61e0201 532102e2fcdfe246e9cd4864d9119b8af465487385eccd0ea30a8cb21d44d36818189f2103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc2103686ee42f635c71c08f326e66139b6cb37167402cc0562584655aac03fe74049521039854d0e2abf6e4971e1350137b876da6a05132737c11ca3e37aaed2a0eb668082103d05d8fb69fcd289548140dde8e906f6fc217b02477f81842f2483d9ea1c9242555ae",
"hex" : "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"
},
"sequence" : 4294967295
},
{
"txid" : "0b115dc70b27f90bf4a981466ed16ee80f65e8d3fe4a5ebf36c00de01eb1c194",
"vout" : 0,
"scriptSig" : {
"asm" : "0 3045022100f954a529618fd5274fc6ad264782a2042940dc3340c545d3d27ffd71277ebcf8022015460ed8fd66cbfc093fd31039ae375ee0c872383aced04162d9b82f69030a0001 3044022075c3dad18b0c038cb9727ddb53d63ad0872acdfa7b2643c4f3994d3cfd6794ba02206ed02137ae047df5025a0290a316228138c5b022b958f211f849d94ae11caf1801 3045022100d540a0a3692af6b1975dd3207e0456d1bb2d9f43b97bcb18f6769e0fbf023d3c022017b3de38047366f17aed956ef18bef8963e87ff0d8ce4fa05bca97b7c3f96fce01 532102e2fcdfe246e9cd4864d9119b8af465487385eccd0ea30a8cb21d44d36818189f2103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc2103686ee42f635c71c08f326e66139b6cb37167402cc0562584655aac03fe74049521039854d0e2abf6e4971e1350137b876da6a05132737c11ca3e37aaed2a0eb668082103d05d8fb69fcd289548140dde8e906f6fc217b02477f81842f2483d9ea1c9242555ae",
"hex" : "00483045022100f954a529618fd5274fc6ad264782a2042940dc3340c545d3d27ffd71277ebcf8022015460ed8fd66cbfc093fd31039ae375ee0c872383aced04162d9b82f69030a0001473044022075c3dad18b0c038cb9727ddb53d63ad0872acdfa7b2643c4f3994d3cfd6794ba02206ed02137ae047df5025a0290a316228138c5b022b958f211f849d94ae11caf1801483045022100d540a0a3692af6b1975dd3207e0456d1bb2d9f43b97bcb18f6769e0fbf023d3c022017b3de38047366f17aed956ef18bef8963e87ff0d8ce4fa05bca97b7c3f96fce014cad532102e2fcdfe246e9cd4864d9119b8af465487385eccd0ea30a8cb21d44d36818189f2103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc2103686ee42f635c71c08f326e66139b6cb37167402cc0562584655aac03fe74049521039854d0e2abf6e4971e1350137b876da6a05132737c11ca3e37aaed2a0eb668082103d05d8fb69fcd289548140dde8e906f6fc217b02477f81842f2483d9ea1c9242555ae"
},
"sequence" : 4294967295
}
],
"vout" : [
{
"value" : 2400000.0,
"n" : 0,
"scriptPubKey" : {
"asm" : "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 1462d25d2568d72654320aef11732fc006d73deb OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
"hex" : "76a9141462d25d2568d72654320aef11732fc006d73deb88ac",
"type" : "pubkeyhash",
"reqSigs" : 1,
"addresses" : [
"SP9nvw4RviJKN5Nn3v15ACHQgfwjfbauha"
]
}
},
{
"value" : 22600006.0,
"n" : 1,
"scriptPubKey" : {
"asm" : "OP_HASH160 7077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac2 OP_EQUAL",
"hex" : "a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac287",
"type" : "scripthash",
"reqSigs" : 1,
"addresses" : [
"SvtGbNjWE49pTM2TiUZrYKSNkxTJx75mmC"
]
}
}
]
}
Transaction ID: b24342d957bf8deb5abf7ff19ff06c38520e99ee6a09797c2ed9b3895f09ed19
Amount: 22600006
N: 1
Script: a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac287
@masterOfDisaster: Are you willing to execute the sale? Which address?
SP9nvw4RviJKN5Nn3v15ACHQgfwjfbauha was used in your transaction for 2.4 M.
Sidhvfpo93KGVpbu9pM3LgyiPdgesnT1G6 was mentioned by you later.
Thank you for starting the NSR tx!
I was starting to look at how to do it based on your guide but got lost.
I’m willing to execute the NSR sale.
Both NSR addresses belong to accounts at Poloniex, I use for NuOwned NuBot operations.
I’d prefer using Sidhvfpo93KGVpbu9pM3LgyiPdgesnT1G6, because that account is empty on buyside at the moment.
It’s the account, which runs at a quite tight spread trying to stimulate trades on the NBT/BTC pair:
I need to disable NuBot during the NSR sale, but @Cybnate’s PyBot operates at a similar and even tighter spread.
I wouldn’t want to use the other Poloniex account, because that one builds a $0.10 wall in case a real bank run happens:
and has some NBT for sale in case BTC nosedives.
edit:
I tried to create a tx using Cointoolkit with your help:
I put the input tx id b24342d957bf8deb5abf7ff19ff06c38520e99ee6a09797c2ed9b3895f09ed19 here:
Unfortunately the result is:
edit2:
I entered N=1 and the hex key from the tx id of the value 22,600,006 (a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac287) into the script field (as well as the amount):
I could create and sign a tx.
Signed 1 (by masterOfDisaster) of 3/5
01000000858854570119ed095f89b3d92e7c79096aee990e52386cf09ff17fbf5aeb8dbf57d94243b20100000017a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac287ffffffff02808d7264070000001976a914ea14ae550e86edaa729903366b61e7bf2746577088ace07b283a2d00000017a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac2870000000053
##Please check thoroughly! I’ve never done it this way before!
Did you input N and Script?
Amount: 3175000 NSR
Address: Sidhvfpo93KGVpbu9pM3LgyiPdgesnT1G6
Fee: 3 NSR
01000000988954570119ed095f89b3d92e7c79096aee990e52386cf09ff17fbf5aeb8dbf57d94243b20100000017a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac287ffffffff02808d7264070000001976a914ea14ae550e86edaa729903366b61e7bf2746577088acb03b343a2d00000017a9147077487df91c0166d33ee6079b0c2229788f6ac2870000000053
Nice. Let’s see if it works. Cointoolkit doesn’t show signers.
Please do me a favour and check that thoroughly.
I’m kinda n00bish and lost without Cointoolkit properly working.
Thank you so much for starting this process!
To your nsr address in Polo?
Yes. One of my NuBot accounts like I explained.
I am ready to sign any time.
Cointoolkit doesn’t work properly, because of Cointoolkit FLOT guide and changelog and Cointoolkit FLOT guide and changelog.
What’s even worse: the version you signed seems to have the same raw tx hex code than the version I signed.
I wasn’t suggesting that FLOT changes the way it calculates the amount of NSR to sell, only the way it reports the result of that calculation.
The options 1-5 were for how to decide what price to offer the shares at when the orders are placed on the exchange. I suppose it does make sense that the price used in the calculation of number of shares to sell and the starting offer price be the same, but that wasn’t what I was thinking when I wrote the post.
I agree it shouldn’t be an automatic calculation, but knowing what the options are makes it so you don’t accidently ignore a good one.
The sooner you get BTC into the reserves the better it is for Nu. Getting BTC earlier in the week is better than getting it later in the week, that is why I suggest a more aggressive initial sale price.
I wasn’t suggesting that FLOT changes the way it calculates the amount of NSR to sell, only the way it reports the result of that calculation.
You make a good point, someone could sell a large quantity of NSR right before, knowing that more was going to come onto the market quickly. That would certainly affect option 3 (and probably 4 and 5 too). Maybe treat the options as a menu and only choose the more agressive options if you don’t think manipulation is in progress?
About using the average rate of the past sale, that ensures that you start the current sale at a price that you couldn’t sell all the shares for last week. Unless people think the network is in better shape now than last week, it won’t be low enough to sell the shares.