[Withdrawn] Make Firing and Replacing Incompetent Liquidity Providers Our Top Priority

[JordanLee]

If T5 and T6 friction is too high, the problem that needs to be fixed is that friction.

The idea of “reserves” don’t matter. The answer to “what would happen if we ran out of reserves” is sell NSR at whatever price. The price of NSR does not matter either. The whole idea hinges on the network as a whole will rise up to liquidity challenges and those that rise up will be rewarded for their efforts.

It makes it very hard to rise up and defend the peg when there is no peg to defend. No 0.95 is not “the peg”.

Exactly. This is perfect.

We must have buy orders up at 0.99 or more. The sooner the better. Please liquidity providers, do this now. Now.

[jooize]

I have many questions. I’m tired from today’s personal activities, so I apologise if I’ve confused something.

Park Rates cannot be effective unless customers believe they will be able to cash out without losing their profits into a wide spread. Do you agree?

Do you want nothing or part of liquidity at tight(er) spread?

I understand you want funds supporting a degraded peg? Why? For marketing basically? For revenue from those who find it worth the premium to exit NuBits (similar to RNA?)?

Customers will in worst scenario have to wait for NuShare sales to fill their order in any of these cases. This is unavoidable if liquidity runs out, which many but not all assume it will.

[JordanLee]

Park Rates cannot be effective unless customers believe they will be able to cash out without losing their profits into a wide spread. Do you agree?

Yes. This is why a degraded peg can’t work. It nearly completely destroys tier 5 and impairs tier 6, while leaving tier 4 under-utilised.

[jooize]

Everything to Poloniex at once? Is there in your opinion any reason to withhold any liquidity?

Should we spread the liquidity across exchanges, or is that not important or useful?

@FLOT: Do we have gateways at 1% or 2% spread?

2% spread equals 1% offset, which results in $0.99 and $1.01, correct?

[JordanLee]

Everything to Poloniex at once?

The only reason not to do that is if we weren’t prepared to turn on the NSR sales quickly. We have to be prepared to refill tier 4 quickly with NSR sales. FLOT, can you help us there and tell us what you are prepared to do?

An intermittent peg is better than none at all. But I don’t accept that we will have to have an intermittent peg at this point. We might just be able to keep continuous liquidity up.

To me, the biggest key is we have to convince NuBit holders that we will defend the peg with everything we have, forever, from this moment. NuShare holders must take the hit. That is what we said we would do.

[masterOfDisaster]

[Passed] Second deposit to FLOT NSR address

100.000.000 NSR are requested for FLOT, to be used for supporting the buyside. Shareholders please vote for the following grant to FLOT NSR address SvtGbNjWE49pTM2TiUZrYKSNkxTJx75mmC: Snvrc5q82wfe2NjEjaQAyStpPKseWrsNqn 100000000 Thank you.

[JordanLee]

Perfect. I was just going to propose a 100 million NSR grant myself. So we agree on something. We ought to pass that right away.

[masterOfDisaster]

I was just going to propose a 100 million NSR grant myself.

I was afraid you’d do that instead of spending 30 seconds to create a new FLOT NSR address, like I proposed.
That’s why made it my top priority, even more important that fighting all these accusations.
I’m a strong proponent of NSR sales to support the peg. That’s why I fought fiercely against all motions that try to limit it.

Can you please tell me why you prefer accusing me to, keeping me busy fighting accusations instead of doing what’s necessary?
How long will you wait until you propose a motion to operate NuBot on Poloniex at a tight spread?
Want me to do that as well, as always reliable, and cheap or for free?
It’s good to have “incompetent” idiots like me that keep this thing running, only because they believe it can do good.
Beat me to this NuBot motion. Do it!

[JordanLee]

FLOT, can you help us there and tell us what you are prepared to do?

We need a plan for daily NSR sales of the FLOT NSR reserve in case they are needed. If there is no liquidity in tier 4, I would suggest selling one million per day and putting the proceeds immediately on the NBT buy wall at Poloniex at 0.99.

[masterOfDisaster]

I would suggest selling one million per day and putting the proceeds immediately on the NBT buy wall at Poloniex at 0.99.

I’m sure you recognized my attempt to automate putting the proceeds from NSR sale at Poloniex automatically on the buy wall.
And you know why it didn’t work this way, right?

Where’s your NuBot, that runs at a tight spread at Poloniex?
Provide FLOT with NBT and BTC address and you’ll receive funds!

[jooize]

What’s the point of him operating a gateway? We already have gateways that are supposed to obey shareholders and possibly FLOT, right? Is the point that we don’t have gateways by people who wouldn’t have been fired from liquidity operations by this motion?

Is there anywhere FLOT can send funds right now to be traded at 1–2% spread? Is NuLagoon Tube a bad idea? They operate at 0.1% spread but without fee for FLOT.

[JordanLee]

This motion already has 22% support over the last 100 blocks. That’s more than most motions that eventually pass get after just one day.

Liquidity providers that would be adversely affected by this motion’s passage may do well to change their behavior to address the underlying concerns that motivated the motion. By doing so, they reduce the probability of it passing.

[masterOfDisaster]

What’s the point of him operating a gateway?

I want to do him more than accusing people who worked their asses off.
I want him to make a practical experience with liquidity provision.
It’s good to see things from an architectural perspective.
But would you trust an architect who doesn’t how actually to build a house?

We already have gateways that are supposed to obey shareholders and possibly FLOT, right?

Jordan made a motion, that would have enforced a tight spread for all new operations.
This motion was not on it’s way to passing, although an impressive support with an insanely high SDD was pushing it.
I made an alternative proposal, that explicitly allowed gateways at an increased spread in case all else fails (btw. - all else failed…).
It seems I’ve fallen in disgrace allowing myself a well-informed opinion - and even worse gathering support for it.

Make the shareholders pass a grant and I adjust the spread as soon as I can.
Convince the majority of FLOT, that support at $0.95 is worse than no support at all after the BTC are gone, and adjust the spread as soon as I can.

Is there anywhere FLOT can send funds right now to be traded at 1–2% spread?

@Cybnate’s PyBots, although she indicated that she’s not comfortable dealing with more than $15k funds in total (number is off the top of my head).

Hell, if Jordan continues to prefer making accusations and preparing grants that pay him 100 million NSR rather than making a new FLOT NSR address and crafting a NuBot motion, I’ll concede and make that motion.
But I will make this not for free nor cheap.

@JordanLee last call: beat me to a NuBot operation at Poloniex.
Provide us with this service as cheap as I provided it so far. Otherwise I ramp up an operation.
I’ll make you responsible for the compensation I’m going to request

[henry]

We suggest NuShareholders use NuLagoon Tube as one of the places to restart pegging.

Compared to Polo, there is no front run risk in Tube, because the trading price is not determined before trade exact happen. The spread can be temporarily set to 0.5% or 0.25% according to NuShareholders’ will.

[jooize]

But would you trust an architect who doesn’t how actually to build a house?

I trust my own reasoning in combination with the arguments I’ve seen, and conclude that you’re wrong this time. You’ve been right many times before, but I haven’t been convinced you are now.

I’m not sure what NuLaw says about spreads, so that may be accurate. I believe withholding liquidity is against NuLaw.

[Passed] Dual-side PyBot gateway on Poloniex and Bittrex

I still have a maximum withdrawal/deposit limit of 2000NBT / day for Poloniex. I’m good for transfers back to FLOT on a weekly bases preferably during the weekend (UTC+12) or for emergencies. I will report on a weekly bases once the bots are funded. At this stage I appreciate to have the bots funded with no more than 15k together.

[Passed] Dual-side PyBot gateway on Poloniex and Bittrex

Both bots have an offset of 0.007 (0.35% on either side).

@Cybnate: Is the gateway operating? Is that a 0.7% spread?

I’d prefer using NuLagoon Tube.

@henry: What do you say about 1–2% spread? 1% spread (offsets 0.5%) seems to be closest to consensus, but of course open to other interpretations and suggestions.

Vote for 1% spread. I’ll craft and sign a 5-of-8 transaction in FLOT BTC for Bitcoins to either @Cybnate’s gateway or NuLagoon Tube when we’ve agreed to a spread there.

Meanwhile, FLOT NSR needs to figure out how to sell NuShares. @Dhume @ttutdxh @cryptog @mhps @masterOfDisaster

[masterOfDisaster]

I trust my own reasoning in combination with the arguments I’ve seen, and conclude that you’re wrong this time. You’ve been right many times before, but I haven’t been convinced you are now.

So when T4 runs dry supporting a tight peg in a BTC bull run, T5 and T6 are in your opinion enough to support the peg from failing?
Do you think we would be in a better position having no BTC left for many days now?
Do you think $0.95 still being kept after 10 days or more (sometimes even better than $0.95) is worse than no support for days?

Do you realize that NSR plummeted before the peg even had a dent?

Cause and effect have been inverted successfully by Jordan.

Parking was not attractive even when the peg was perfectly fine. Blaming a drop of buyside to $0.95 for being the reason of parking not being successful is almost ridiculous.
You are aware that almost all parked NBT are from BCE development funds as it seems? I wrote a thread to get some information about BCE.

If T5 doesn’t work as expected (we might need even higher park rates), how much hope do you put on T6?
Why did @JordanLee not do all that was possible to convince shareholders to increase the park rates?
Why did he not advocate an accelerated NSR sale (the current plan was based on an approved motion)?
There are many possible reasons.
A plausible one is that he needed someone to blame to disctract from what was the cause.

Vote for 1% spread.

Why not testing the waters first? Then again, this would have saved us from this thread, if only I hadn’t opposed the infalliable architect successfully with a motion that explicitly allows increased spreads and draw support from his.

Why not following this recommendation:

Make the shareholders pass a grant and I adjust the spread as soon as I can.
Convince the majority of FLOT, that support at $0.95 is worse than no support at all after the BTC are gone, and adjust the spread as soon as I can.

Blind belief brought us where we are now.
We would have 0 BTC left, a failed T5 and no sufficiently fast NSR sales to support the peg at any rate, if you extrapolate the data we could gather in the first days of the BTC bull run.
Still I say, let’s try.
Why not voting on this:

[Nubot Gateway] Poloniex @zoro (sell offset:0.25% , buy offset:5% ) - stand by

The other vote came from me. I believe this is wrong, but we need to test to find out. @cryptog, @Dhume, @dysconnect, @ttutdxh, @woodstockmerkle, what’s your opinion on that matter? You’ve been asked before. Please vote. An alternative proposal of @mhps is As @JordanLee doesn’t like parametric order books (at NBT/BTC), we should put all BTC in one single order at a tight spread.

The fastest way to find out.
@cryptog, @Dhume, @dysconnect, @ttutdxh, @woodstockmerkle, please help!

1% spread that requires no condition is good for NBT/USD.
It’s madness for all else, including NBT/BTC.

Btw. - I’ve been in private communication with Jordan, when I had to do the same on Poloniex what I do here and now to support the peg.
I wouldn’t dare to quote a private message I received, but I think I can quote what I wrote to Jordan on Jan 24th:

If you investigate the other possible supporters of the peg at Poloniex (ALP: NuPool; MLP: NuLagoon), you’ll find out that a good part of the time it was the NuBots I operate, that kept the peg.Maybe @woolly_sammoth or @willy can provide anonymized payment logs of the past 9 days of NuPool at Poloniex. That will show the lack of liquidity. I’ve asked them for that data in the forum, but haven’t received an answer so far.Without the NuBots, our only chance would have been to rely on traders not selling NBT for very low prices.While I suppose that a lot of trade on the BTC/NBT is done by bots of others, that just don’t buy at big offsets, I wouldn’t want to rely on that.I thought of the gateways, because I understood that Poloniex is important.As I couldn’t rely on traders not to break the peg in absence of orders from Nu, I put it on my shoulders to improve the configuration of the NuBots, adjust them to the market as good as I could to find a balance between a sufficient peg support and having the funds at the exchange not running out too fast. We just had nothing better.I’ve found a balance which works at the moment and have started to reduce my involvement. I need to recover.

Nu is of that much importance for me, because for the first time in my life I have the feeling that I can contribute significantly to something important, that might make the world a better place. Nu might somewhen be able to limit the destructive power of central banks. I’m looking forward to X-NBT. That is the source of my passion.

Make a guess whether or not Jordan told me that this behaviour is inacceptable back then. He was aware of what I had made the NuBots for.
Discussions about this were all around the place ever since.

Riding roughshot over me makes me think of the motives, the incentives that make him do that. And I wonder why I haven’t received as much as a hint before.

Passing the 1% motion would suffice for adjusting liquidity provision…
…but whom would you blame for the situation Nu’s in?
Tactical move to strike first.
But an unfair one.

[ChrisS]

We have to wait until the children steal the bread before we cut their hands off.

[masterOfDisaster]

I already “stole the bread” in January.
Jordan knew it.
Why not “firing” me back then?
Or starting a discussion about it?

Because I was still useful

• as cheap worker, that revealed the passion for Nu?
• as the one to blame later when Nu came in dire situations?

[Confucius]

As long as the NuShare price is greater than zero, there should never be a buy side with no support because NuShares can be sold for BTC, which can be immediately placed on the buy side.

As a NuShare investor and longtime lurker here, I want to say, that this is nuts. This tells me that I should never buy NuShares and should dump mine immediately to save the remaining 1/5 of the value I bought them at. Good luck selling NuShares when every investor is dumping there’s on the exchanges because they’re trying not to lose all.

[CommunityObserver]

Perhaps nushares arent an investment tool, but a voting and peg defending tool.