What will be paid to B&C exchange developer

[backpacker]

What about all other contractors who have nubits that are worth a fraction now?

[ConfusedObserver]

They should do the same.
Keeping the system running is more important than chasing after the peg.
You need contractors to keep the system running.

[Sentinelrv]

They should do the same.
Keeping the system running is more important than chasing after the peg.
You need contractors to keep the system running.

Yep, if they all leave because of lack of payment then we’re definitely screwed. The peg is lost. Everybody knows it now. We need to choose the most viable path forward with the biggest chance of success. B&C has a viable revenue model, unlike Nu. We can use this to our advantage, but that can only happen if our contractors continue to get paid. It is in Nu’s best interest to make sure that keeps happening.

[Sabreiib]

First, we need a leader in B&C development, @sigmike? Or @eleven? @CoinGame?

Then if the new leader and other dev accept BKS, bks shareholder should grant some BKS to them. That’s dilution, I and @dhume are both big and active shareholders, so we can help the motion to pass.

How much time and money do we need to finish B&C project?！

[creon]

Mindblowing story. I read some of your commits @Eleven and I am confident that you won’t have a problem finding other opportunities with your skills. Honest question: Is anyone of you developers of B&C really 100% behind the design paper (also paging @sigmike, @CoinGame )? I would really like to understand some fundamental properties of this exchange design.

As a hint for shareholders: Maybe, to get a better understanding of the current funds available in JLs possession, it could be a good start to ask @cryptog or @eleven to reveal the addresses they received their funds from … you know, open ledger and so … but maybe JL also took care of those things and mixed the coins. Also the email contact to Angela might be of use - maybe if you offer some hard BTC to her then she might tell something, if she indeed is a real person.

[Cybnate]

Then if the new leader and other dev accept BKS, bks shareholder should grant some BKS to them. That’s dilution, I and @dhume are both big and active shareholders, so we can help the motion to pass.

How much time and money do we need to finish B&C project?！

I’m in as B&C Shareholder and would vote for such a motion.
I do have PM skills as some of you already know, but severely lacking the time to properly lead a project as this due to other commitments and the requirement to have a more reliable source of income. But I can help a bit.

How much time and money do we need to finish B&C project?！

Let’s break this down:
@coingame, how much more testing time (hours/days or dollars) do you anticipate you needed to release 5.0 to a working state (not necessarily a pretty state).
@Eleven, how much time for bug fixing do you need during @coingame’s testing?
And how much time would you need to package and release binaries for 5.0 so community can start testing?
Finally we need to keep eleven on standby for a couple of hours a week to continue to fix issues found with 5.0.

With these answers we can submit a motion to Shareholders and get them to finish release 5. Everything else beyond will need to be discussed. Just keep in mind mind that we have other essential costs to sustain, like hosting/maintaining the forum and the website.

[Eleven]

how much time for bug fixing do you need during @coingame’s testing?

It depends on the bug. Usually it need 2-3 hours. I almost fix all the bugs. It remains someone need review my code, before @sigmike did this, now I think he is busy. So maybe I will do it.

how much time would you need to package and release binaries for 5.0 so community can start testing?

package does not take much time, but I don’t have a windows and Mac OSX. For windows it is easy to solve, I can find a cumputer and build the neccessary environment and package.

[Cybnate]

Mac OSX

We can do without the OSX to start with, although @sabreiib may not agree

I almost fix all the bugs.

Like the confidence

It remains someone need review my code, before @sigmike did this, now I think he is busy. So maybe I will do it.

Hope @sigmike is able to find some time to respond.
Same for @CoinGame for the testing.

We really need to get a proposal in front of the Shareholders to release 5.0 asap.

[Sabreiib]

We can do without the OSX to start with, although @sabreiib may not agree

In this situation I will agree even if only linux is supported.

@sigmike should say something; and @Eleven, thanks for your hard work, we will find solutions to provide you salary to finish B&C project.

[sigmike]

Where is Jordan Lee? @sigmike

I have no idea.

Does any of you know Jordan in real life

I don’t. He has always been very careful about hiding his identity.

I assume none of you have heared anything from him either?

I haven’t, but my communication with him was very sparse these last weeks.

@CoinGame, is this unusual for him? I’m not sure how often he is available for development related issues.

Sometimes he was absent from the chatroom for several days. He usually came back to answer if we mentioned him (but not always), but I think nobody mentioned him since the crisis started.

If for some reason he never came back, do you believe the current team knows enough about his design to be able to finish it without him, assuming we were able to generate enough funds for development with something like this…

I think we could finish the core system. I’m not sure about the front end because there are a few things I never took the time to think about. But if something unclear came up we could certainly find a solution without Jordan (unless it’s a fundamental flaw without good solution but Jordan probably wouldn’t help either).

I think the main problem is my available time. He asked me at the beginning of the year to lead the team, but I failed mostly because I lacked time. So he took this role again. I can probably take it back, but my available time is still uncertain.

With Jordan going rogue, do the current B&C supporters have enough BKS to pass motions, grants, create signers, ect. In other words, do we actually have majority control of the network? Could we arrange to pay @eleven without Jordan?

Right now it’s unlikely. If we consider the shareholders who didn’t upgrade their client are apathetic then we currently only have 63% of active shareholders so we would need about 80% of them to vote for a motion or a grant to make it pass. And they include Jordan.

But as Sentinelrv said, if we switch to protocol v5 then it should not be a problem as long as 50% of the non-abstaining shareholders agree.

Have the specifications been detailed enough for Eleven or other developers to finish B&C without any further input from Jordan?

I wrote the detailed protocol specs, so about the core system the answer is probably yes. I’m not sure about the front end though, but I think it was not planned for this development round anyway.

First, we need a leader in B&C development, @sigmike? Or @eleven? @CoinGame?

I could probably lead on the technical side of the project but I lack time.

I have recently had a few important disagreements with Jordan on some technical parts, but I didn’t have the time or the energy to debate them with him (except for the default data feed, which was very bad for the future in my opinion so I took the time). So if I’m going to lead the development we may have to discard some of the very recent work Eleven did. An advantage of this way would be that a part of the remaining code (the signer logic) could be written by any coder, not only by C++ coders with good knowledge of blockchain internals.

if the new leader and other dev accept BKS

I’m not sure about that because BKS is very illiquid right now.

How much time and money do we need to finish B&C project?

That’s a very hard question that has always been in the hands of Jordan only. I don’t know anything about the costs involved besides my own. Evaluating the time only is also very difficult, especially because I don’t know how the other developers are efficient nor how much time testing requires. I may be able to evaluate how much time I would need to do everything myself, but even that would take quite some time and would be very uncertain.

Is anyone of you developers of B&C really 100% behind the design paper (also paging @sigmike, @CoinGame )?

Do you mean do we support the design paper as it is written? I think many parts are unclear but I was able to write more detailed protocol specs from it. These specs include changes from the design paper though (about which Jordan never gave his opinion, so I don’t even know if he read them).

email contact to Angela

My contacts with Angela have been through BitMessage only, and I guess it’s the same for the others.

how much time would you need to package and release binaries for 5.0 so community can start testing?

I’m not sure the others are able to build the packages right away. I was usually the one doing it. It takes an hour or so, but it’s mostly automated so it doesn’t cost very much (it could be fully automated by the way, by anyone with Linux system administration skills). That’s for Linux and Windows builds only though.

It remains someone need review my code, before @sigmike did this, now I think he is busy.

I can probably find some time to review your changes.

[ConfusedObserver]

I have recently had a few important disagreements with Jordan on some technical parts, but I didn’t have the time or the energy to debate them with him (except for the default data feed, which was very bad for the future in my opinion so I took the time).

Having disagreement with Jordan for good reason is what was lacking at a lot more places. It’s good to see that you were not afraid of disagreeing with Jordan!
May I ask about the default data feed - do you think it was a bad idea to have a default data feed?
…because I think it was…
I’m not sure whether “which was very bad for the future” is related to the disagreement with Jordan or the data feed and want to be sure about that.

So if I’m going to lead the development we may have to discard some of the very recent work Eleven did. An advantage of this way would be that a part of the remaining code (the signer logic) could be written by any coder, not only by C++ coders with good knowledge of blockchain internals.

Discarding some of the work to pave the ground for a more flexible way forward doesn’t sound bad at all!

Do you think you have enough time to lead the development if you were to be chosen?

Do you have enough confidence in Nu left to be paid with NSR (Nu could offer NBT-NSR swaps for the NBT that are in the B&C development fund)?
If not, what payment would you accept?

I’m not sure about that because BKS is very illiquid right now.

I guess this indicates that NSR are no option, because NSR are illiquid as well. You wouldn’t want to have a speculative payment, right?

[Sabreiib]

@Eleven so you are still paid by Jordan with NBT?

I suggest we vote @sigmike as our dev leader if

1. eleven and sigmike etc don’t reveive salary from Jordan any more.

2. Jordan dosen’t show up till July 27.

[ConfusedObserver]

Jordan dosen’t show up till July 27.

Would you want to have Jordan in an important role after all that has happened, just because he decided to show up again?

Prepare for a world without Jordan.
Emancipate yourselves!

[Sabreiib]

So if I’m going to lead the development we may have to discard some of the very recent work Eleven did. An advantage of this way would be that a part of the remaining code (the signer logic) could be written by any coder, not only by C++ coders with good knowledge of blockchain internals.

Your solution is great! Can we upgrade to v5.0 ASAP? So that we can discard those lazy miners.
As a big BKS holder, I am ready to support you as leader.

[CoinGame]

I did provide a number of criticisms regarding the design during the initial presentation. For instance I think reputation should be automated in some fashion, and the current uncapped nature of reputation votes will mean a very uneven distribution of reputation for signers. If someone with a very high reputation decides to go rogue it may take some time for their score to drop below the levels of being chosen for trades. Though this idea goes that it will be more profitable to become a well functioning signer than it would be to disrupt the earned reputation. I had suggested that there be a reputation cap so that bad actors would be booted from the pool of available signers faster. The trading will obviously be slow.

There are some compelling mechanisms to the design that I think are interesting. Selling BKC provides revenue for the network, and I think the service it offers would be in higher demand than a stable value coin. Though having a decentralized stable value coin would have complimented B&C well. It would draw users from many different communities so the service it offers would have a really great network effect in regards to community building.

It wouldn’t be great for HFT, but if it’s a project that is able to earn revenue and distribute dividends, provide an income to people providing a service that helps the network run (think of DASH master nodes without having to buy in 5K dash to participate), then there might be a very valuable DAO concept here.

It does require some warm bodies in positions to make it work, but I don’t necessarily think that’s bad. Given how THE DAO is currently turning out maybe there’s a good balance between automated roles and anonymous actors.

[CoinGame]

Who am I supposed to request the payment from?

[Sabreiib]

it’s a project that is able to earn revenue and distribute dividends, provide an income to people providing a service that helps the network run (think of DASH master nodes without having to buy in 5K dash to participate), then there might be a very valuable DAO concept here.

Totally agree!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1513978.0

[creon]

Thanks a lot to @CoinGame and @sigmike for sharing their views.

I was able to write more detailed protocol specs from it.

Hearing this from you is probably the best news I heard about B&C since its proposal.

[Sentinelrv]

Who am I supposed to request the payment from?

Maybe make a motion that requests payment from the proceeds of the recent NuShare sale. Or maybe you could do without the motion and FLOT could use discretion in this case. It’s obvious what the intent was for shareholders, since they had already passed the grant to give you funds for the rebuilding of the website. The peg broke though, so shareholders should probably still be responsible for paying this bill, not you. Maybe talk to @jooize about it, since he managed the auction.

[Sentinelrv]

@sigmike, I understand some shareholders here would rather have you replace Jordan because of his recent absence and strange behavior (if he is indeed using multiple identities). Maybe before considering this though, you should try getting in contact with Jordan yourself to see if he is still capable and willing to manage B&C development. If he was to respond back to anyone asking questions about B&C development, I believe he would most likely answer you. If he remains silent even after contact, then I agree we should consider moving on to the next stage and finding a replacement. I think we should at least wait and see first though whether he answers you back before we go down that route.