Sometimes people get upset about stuff. This is one of those times

creon 2016-06-25 18:43:14 UTC #1

My support for this is off the table from now on.

I mentioned already in another thread what would be the red line for me to make this whole thing here uninteresting. Banning people for talking about monetary policies of the reserve bank of Germany in the 30’s, without even using the word nazi, is just out of scope in a DAO that mimics the behavior of such a bank. History repeats itself, in big and small things, and btw: a single guy with great rethoric abilities reaching for power in a bankrupt and hopeless environment should be very familiar to shareholders.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy JL having 20% of the staking weight while reading selected CoinGame approved comments on this forum, the reality clash might be brutal in the end.

@CoinGame you can now ban this account forever.

[Withdrawn] Think big, act small and establish revenue stream

backpacker 2016-06-25 18:53:15 UTC #2

Come on man, let’s chill, I agree that some people are extremely touchy with subject of ww2, a lot of families suffered and still remember. I don’t think @CoinGame did temporary suspension for Jordan Lee or whoever, but simply because it’s a very sensitive subject for him.

Some people feel they know better than others what ss did. Maybe they do.

CoinGame 2016-06-25 19:55:41 UTC #3

A very simple and clear request was made in that thread. Do not continue the discussion there. It was not a topic brought up with level heads looking to pick apart the nuances. You know very well how that discussion was about to progress and chose to stoke the fires when you were asked not to. Maybe you didn’t see it and I give you way too much credit. Either way you had the opportunity to start a new thread outside of a heated turn in the discussion and chose to breach the request instead. That’s on you. For all of Jordan’s faults he doesn’t threaten to rage-quit at every opportunity. Even when everyone is against him. I respect that and I disagree with him on just about everything we discuss. I don’t respect how you carry yourself. You ditched the community and waited around to come back when everything fell apart just to rip into everyone and everything. You’ve had free reign to lay stakes at every possible wrinkle the community is dealing with right now. You chose to either knowingly stoke the flames of what was about to become a huge moderation headache or didn’t have the wherewithal to understand why we wanted to defuse the situation and chose to stomp all over a very simple and straightforward request. Now you’re going to hop on @Nagalim’s victim hyperbole train and accuse me of heavily censoring the content of this forum? There must be some link between the most combative individuals also being the most thin skinned, but that’s outside the point i’m trying to make here.

As much as your insights and posts are appreciated by me and everyone else you’re not above the requests and actions of the moderators. That goes for any community you decide to partake in. Nor will I rub some ointment on your bottom in the hopes that you’ll stay. Do whatever you want.

creon 2016-06-25 20:13:19 UTC #4

I have no money at stake here, so the discussion about this whole thing is the only thing that motivates me.

If a post like the one I wrote gets deleted then I just cannot know what else got deleted which somehow crosses your personal line of tolerance. In another thread you said that you would only delete direct plain attacks like those “fuck off” posts, but apparently this sometimes extends so some very subjective line and includes non insulting and very objective posts.

Who knows which posts already got deleted in several of the very hot threads, which were of similar factual nature. Also the fact that the whole discussion afterwards still talked about the same thing and nobody got suspended is quite remarkable.

Don’t think that I will sybil attack this forum at any time and @Nagalim probably also doesn’t use an alt. You should be aware as moderator in such a situation that those actions are very critical. I already got heavier insults than the one by @Sabreiib in the censored thread and I can take it because I know that he has the same rights on this platform than I have. You don’t.

mhps 2016-06-25 20:28:29 UTC #5

I don’t think that thread was going worse than normal. @Sabreiib being not knowing all the inner jokes and manners of western/English forums mentioned Nazi and @Nagalim pointed out that normal government take over normal people’s properties, too. That thread was going off topic then indeed but that was nothing extraordinay. I didn’t see @creon’s deleted post but if he wanted to educate forum members on history so what? I don’t think suspending account in that circumstance was a justified punishment – it all had too much moderator’s whim in it.

Your using other issues against @creon above just suggested that you might have suspended him because you have a chip against him on other issues that didn’t deserve suspension. Sorry that just doesn’t look right.

As a shareholder I for one prefer @creon’s stay than your previlege to delete posts and suspend accounts because of the way you excercise your judgement.

edit: well I guess I over-reacted too. No one asked me to choose.

CoinGame 2016-06-25 20:30:05 UTC #6

A clear warning was given. You breached that warning. We have never subversively removed posts in order to change the characteristics of a discussion, and that’s what you’re implying. Everything about that situation was explained up front and you chose to rip up the yellow tape and walk through. Now everything is being censored. This is pure bile.

The forum has been random people showing up to trash everyone and everything for weeks now. If we were trying to purify discussions we’re doing a terrible job of it. I think the fact you’re free to make baseless accusations that have no reference to reality is a key indicator to how open this environment is.

The tools and roles of moderators are not for decorative purposes. If you’re incapable of making the distinction between regulators expressing consequences for certain actions and pervasive, systemic, subversive censorship then once again that’s a conflation of concepts you yourself must struggle with. If your reason to rage-quit is your own misunderstand of those concepts then that’s on you.

creon 2016-06-25 20:41:22 UTC #7

This is my only concern: How should anyone know if what you say is true? So far I never observed any kind of deletion except for those spam posts mentioned, so I believed that the moderators and I somehow agree where the line is. Now I (obviously) observed that you deleted a post which clearly was not in that category, so I start questioning my previous assumption. How on earth is that a baseless accusation? It’s a pretty logical line of thinking if you ask me.

And don’t talk about “we”, I am talking about you. And btw, I don’t need to “rage quit”, if I lose interest in this thing here then I am gone and never watch back, so if the discussion here appears to become fake then its getting boring very quickly.

CoinGame 2016-06-25 22:02:23 UTC #8

This is such a red herring and i’ll keep playing the game as much as you want if it makes you feel better. Let’s entertain your notion of the current rampant widespread censorship. If it was happening how could you have been sure that wasn’t happening before either? What is the concern now? If people were making new threads to the effect of “hey, why was x post of mine deleted without warning?” with many of those popping up and immediately disappearing your concerns and arguments would hold weight. If there were many posts and replies that oddly lacked significant context to make them unintelligible then you would be on point for putting on some concerned pants.

Let’s examine the events and situation that has you making these claims and raised your concerns. Multiple moderators disagreed with the composition of a post and how that composition typically evolves discourse following it. In fact other members of the community raised concerns with the composition of the post that spawned this controversy as well. This was not a unilateral concern on my part and multiple approaches to dealing it were put into effect. First completely locking the discussion which I thought was heavy handed. Then unlocking it and simply asking not to continue that specific discussion at that point in that thread. All of those moderator actions are public record right in that thread. In that moment it was made in extremely plain English what the consequence would be. You literally reiterated the consequence as you blatantly disregarded it. That discussion was not going to continue. How much more open and honest could I have been regarding the actions taken?

So here we are now. You got hit for doing something you knew that you were going to get hit for. Where everything that happened was openly expressed as plainly as possible. Where I actually reversed a complete shutdown of an entire discussion and only asked that a very small portion of that discussion does not proceed. This very open, honest, clear, situation that everyone is freely discussing is your basis for sudden hysteria of potentially pervasive, subversive ongoing censorship?

What bothers me most with the relationship you’re trying to draw here is that I think you’re a lot smarter than that and you know this doesn’t hold any weight. Not with anyone who’s willing to call you out for your nonsense. I don’t care whether you leave or stay, so let me share with you what I really think the situation is You’ve been enjoying yourself pointing your fingers in everyone’s faces that you disagree with since you’ve returned. You thought it would be a simple matter to trample through my request as you’ve been trampling through everything else here. You finally had some consequence applied to you and now you’re personally upset with it. Are you going to own up to barreling through every single sign post explaining there was a dead end ahead? Nope. You’re going to red herring your way out of this and use the social currency you’ve earned here to accuse of massive widespread corruption justified by the indignation accrued from being treated like anyone else who comes on this forum and disrespects the warnings of a moderator. Even though nothing even remotely close to the type of events that’s I mentioned at the start of this rant, which would warrant this newly found censorship hysteria, has occurred. You were knocked for going against a very clear and easy to understand request, and now you don’t want to own up to that. How could you ever continue to spend time on a forum where the team has allowed you to basically do and say whatever you want except for literally breaking a request in a thread where the moderation team was openly doing what their name implies: moderating.

You’re an absolute joke if you really believe your own nonsense and I don’t really care for being accused of hiding anything. Since you tucked your tail and ran out of here the first time I’ve been doing my best to change the entire culture of how the development team and operations for this project are structured. Working to open source our website, the block explorer, moving development chats to public spaces, and allowing jerks like you to show up and crap all over everything.

The reason he was suspended was clearly defined. He knew what he was doing. He did it anyway. Now apparently the sky is falling and he’s not sure he’s willing to participate under such an oppressive regime. This kind of attitude was well known by the people that worked closely with him during his first time around, and yet he’s been more than welcome to do and say whatever he wants since he returned. Except trample over the warnings of moderators where the consequences were clearly defined.

Craft a motion to remove me as admin. If it passes i’ll leave the projects and community without a fuss. I enjoy @creon’s presence on the forum even if I don’t care for his overly dramatic attitude and I certainly think the stink he’s raising today stems from a sore posterior, but if you want to make this a “me or him” situation then put it to a vote. I’m a volunteer here and if my services aren’t appreciated then there’s no reason for me to stick around. Fortunately we have a way for the people to anonymously express their displeasure.

creon 2016-06-25 22:37:09 UTC #9

Nobody speaks of widespread corruption or removing or replacing you here. Your contributions should be and I think are greatly appreciated, and in particular the infrastructure projects you mentioned are very exciting approaches. And nobody should choose here, or better: if shareholders would have to choose between @CoinGame and me then they should of course always pick him.

You are using much more dramatizing words than I do (like “oppressive regime” or “widespread corruption”). I wasn’t even part of the thread when it went there, just woke up, looked into the forum and wrote a proper reply and you banned me. No other moderator was involved. I still think now that there were probably other posts I personally would have liked to read which got deleted for similar reasons.

And stop with that “it was clear” thing, the thread continued with the same topic and nobody got suspended but me (the OP is even still there with a kind question from you to remove it) - you clearly wanted to make a different point here. If this was just to show me who is more powerful here, then ok, I assume it was a singular event then. If you do this regularly, then I think I can speak up against it. And we know that many in this community would not do that, so the argument that nothing else was said so far doesn’t really work. You know you overstepped here, and although I admit that my “rage quit” attempt was too dramatic, it doesn’t change that this was not ok.

Anyways, thanks for telling me what you think about me, it was quite informative. The intentions are correct in many ways. But its not that I came up with this now, as your surely remember I said the very same things when the B&C motion passed and put a lot of time and effort to promote a different roadmap. Now pointing fingers in other peoples face is maybe really not ok, and I try to reduce that to JL, but if I see 38 votes in the last 100 blocks for JLs NSR motion which basically continues the same thing makes me think that it might be benefitial if there is an asshole which says those things sometimes.

BTW, it would probably be good for the thread to get split, however you like.

CoinGame 2016-06-26 00:15:07 UTC #10

Yes, i’m trying to make a point. You guys running around screaming censorship this and that are being ridiculous. My character is being attacked when I’ve being doing real work to change how teams within the project operate to be more open and transparent. So, i’m kicking it up a few notches on being extra ridiculous. Is that the most effective way to go about it? No of course not, but i’m upset about these ideas being targeted at me.

They’re dancing around the subject to make a point about what happened while you dove into the middle to stir up exactly what we intended to diffuse. It doesn’t matter if you actually had a clear well intentioned thought. You should know given the composition of the remark that sparked this a response equal in nature wasn’t going to be volleyed back. Not to mention the endless conspiracy theorists and trolls roaming around when these types of subjects come up. The groundwork was laid for a lot of nonsense to occur. You were not singled out. @Sabreiib was temp suspended as well for egging on the discussion further. It’s easy to be the guy that shows up and craps on everyone. It’s difficult to be responsible for cleaning up those messes. If we don’t do enough then we’re criticized. If we do too much we’re criticized. Personally I don’t think I overstepped here. I think two members on the moderation team intended to break up what we believed would turn into a shit show before the laxatives were passed around. Whether we were right or wrong is not something we’re ever going to know at this point, and we had different ideas on how to resolve it. Obviously mine being more controversial. In this instance I felt it was better to do more than not do enough and take the hit on the side of doing too much. If the consensus is that I did too much then fine. I’ll take that hit.

Absolutely. Everyone’s ideas should be challenged and i’m really glad to see the direction of the network isn’t solely based around Jordan’s view of what it should be. That’s great and I’m really happy about it. If we’re trying to defuse a certain kind of situation from blowing up in a thread though please do us a favor and recognize that for what it is and help out by not stoking the flames. I agree that such strong support could potentially be invoked by a single individual. I don’t think that’s the case though. We’re recently hitting an all time low in PoS difficulty meaning there’s a lot of minting apathy. I think that’s exacerbating the issues to make it look like individual addresses have so much power when really the larger concern is that there is far fewer people participating in securing the network which gives individual large holders much greater influence. How do we get more people participating should be the real concern.

Look I don’t particularly care for the way you say things, but I like the things you say. Even when I disagree with them. None of that had anything to do with your suspension today, or for @Sabreiib. I made a firm statement regarding what wasn’t going to happen and you guys jumped in to encourage it further. We don’t do a lot of moderating on here and usually we don’t have to. In two years we’ve had a total of 35 posts flagged for moderation. That’s fantastic. So, when we do step in and act i’m sure it’s going to seem like the end of the world since we do it so rarely.

As much as I would love to continue this, and I’ve had a blast, it’s late here. So if you want to have the last word on this matter feel free. I’m done. Hopefully we can have a more productive tomorrow that doesn’t end in calling each other Nazis and Hitler. Enjoy your weekend.

cryptog 2016-06-26 01:09:22 UTC #11

If you do not want to be a victim, do not look for any opportunity to become pissed off. Focus on the good, leave out the rest.

PS: As so with moderation power, i was not involved with any moderation so far. As long as there is mutual respect, i am ok with any statement.