POLL for NuShareholders: What is Your Current Sentiment on Nu's Future? (Updated Version - July 2016)

[jgeewax]

I’m not aware of USD Tether’s business model - where does their revenue come from?

USDT charges fees to buy Tether via fiat like USD (ie, same as Coinbase).

How do their books look like?

https://wallet.tether.to/transparency

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More info on https://tether.to/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/TetherWhitePaper.pdf

[jgeewax]

I’m glad to see we’re getting value eventually back to USD, however the problem still seems to be that we’re dealing with a volatile conduit between the two “currencies”.

The peg technically isn’t USD-NBT… its USD-BTC-NBT. In other words – I don’t know anywhere that will take my USD and give me NBT. Or even take my USDT and give me NBT. That seems super weird to me. I get the problems of dealing with fiat, but pegging to something as volatile as BTC doesn’t seem right – particularly when there are alternatives.

This seems even more strange when we know that BTC is a deflationary currency by definition, and the US Dollar is designed to be inflationary ever since the gold standard went away.

I feel that it’s a bit like saying “OK, you want to save some money in our bank. Cool. First go buy a bunch of shares in companies, and then you can trade those back for dollars and we’ll put them in your account.”

If we must use some conduit to go from USD <-> NBT, might as well be the most stable thing we can find (in the analogy above that’d be US Treasury bonds, in our example, USDT seems like an interesting option).

[ConfusedObserver]

I feel that it’s a bit like saying “OK, you want to save some money in our bank. Cool. First go buy a bunch of shares in companies, and then you can trade those back for dollars and we’ll put them in your account.”

This is because BTC is the de facto means of exchange at most crypto currency exchanges while most don’t support USD because of KYC/AML at the same time.
That seems to be the prime reason why BTC/NBT was being used.

Better focus on getting NBT/USD going than using a direct competitor and earning them money, no?

If we must use some conduit to go from USD <-> NBT,

I doubt this is a ‘must’.
It might just be more convenient to use BTC or USDT.
As dealing with USDT (e.g. withdrawing it) requires dealing with KYC/AML stuff, you can as well focus on NBT/USD and bypass USDT.

[jgeewax]

I doubt this is a ‘must’.It might just be more convenient to use BTC or USDT.

Not sure I agree. I don’t think we can reasonably deal with fiat without all the of the things you’re mentioning here (KYC, AML, bank accounts, etc…). If that’s the direction we’re going to go, I’d be even more worried.

As dealing with USDT (e.g. withdrawing it) requires dealing with KYC/AML stuff, you can as well focus on NBT/USD and bypass USDT.

My worry about going between USD <-> NBT is really about switching between something that is known to have the same value and less about “cashing out” of the crypto-currency ecosystem.

If I want to get out of the system, I recognize that there will be some hurdles, specifically focused on money laundering and friends. What I really want is the ability to say “I want off of the BTC roller coaster”.

NBT has been letting people do that, and paying pretty dearly for it. USDT has been recently letting people do that, but without the same losses.

The big differences IMO are:

• USDT is likely to be compromised all at once (“Someone robbed our bank”) whereas NBT value will erode slowly (as it has…)

• USDT suffers from the same throughput and confirmation time problems as BTC whereas NBT has it’s own chain with much faster confirmation times and higher overall throughput.

Going back to the comment… Is anyone interested in doing a NBT <-> USD peg? Can we get Poloniex to start one? I’d consider putting up some NBT and USDT to kick it off…

[GreatScott]

My understanding of why Nu gave up on supporting USD/NBT is due to the fact that the only exchange that listed said trading pair received $XX (double digit) in exchange-wide trade volume per day. This lead people to give up on the idea of fiat liquidity almost completely. I have thought about using Tether as a tier of emergency reserve liquidity recently, but I don’t think our customers would desire another step between NBT and a bank account as part of standard procedure.

We certainly should not have PPC anywhere in our reserve liquidity. I think that is another serious issue with Nu, that it has no problem passing risk of the PPC market onto our customers, because many shareholders came from the PPC community.

[GreatScott]

USD Tether exists and seems to work now. I wonder what people think about re-starting this but using USDT as the conduit for enforcing our peg. This way you’re always exchanging NBT for something that is worth 1 USD by definition…

Why bother with NuTether, then? Is the question I leave myself asking. The only useful purpose for Tether in Nu would be an emergency tier of liquidity. I almost wrote up a proposal for NuPit. It is a website similar to Shapeshift where you send your NBT to an address and receive $0.95 worth of Tether. The NBT would get burned, and for running NuPit I would be granted a predetermined number of NSR as laid out in the motion, based on how many NBT were burnt or how much Tether was spent. It would only be a one way valve in times of peg stress.

At the end of my thinking on the topic, I decided I would need to ask for too much NSR to make it worth my while. And with the hyperinflation of NSR already underway, it is unpredictable how much NSR I should ask for. And is the NSR really that desirable anymore?

[jgeewax]

NBT pegged to USDT would be valuable (to me at least) because I can use the Nu chain to execute transactions – and it’s pretty zippy.

When I’m standing next to someone and want to pay, I really don’t want to have to find a bench and make small-talk while I wait for a single confirmation.

BTC is great for distant transactions (ie, when I’m buying something that then has to be shipped to me… minutes don’t matter), but it kind of sucks when you’re standing next to the recipient.

[GreatScott]

There is a/has always been a fear of centralization with Tether. That is why I joined Nu. What do you do when that fear comes to realization and Tether’s bank accounts are robbed?

I just do not think tx confirmation time is innovative enough to start a new DAC.

[mhps]

I don’t know anywhere that will take my USD and give me NBT.

@woolly_sammoth is making progress in something like this

[Discussion] Contract to create web interface code that one can use to sell/buy Nubits with fiat online

I propose to pay for a contract to enable opening up a new space of possiblities to buy/sell Nubits. This will have several benefits and features: Now if people wants to buy Nubits they have to register at an exchange. This discourages people from trying out with minimum hassle, and increases centralisation. With web sites set up using the software proposed people can easily buy or sell back Nubits. This software can be used to provide liquidity in NBT/FIAT pairs similar to the ALP software …

[mhps]

My understanding of why Nu gave up on supporting USD/NBT is due to the fact that the only exchange that listed said trading pair received $XX (double digit) in exchange-wide trade volume per day.

The nbt/btc liquidity operation takes volume away from nbt/usd merket.

[GreatScott]

The nbt/btc liquidity operation takes volume away from nbt/usd

You could rephrase this to say, “Shareholders put more liquidity in the nbt/btc market instead of the nbt/usd market” Couldn’t you?

[mhps]

You could rephrase this to say, “Shareholders put more liquidity in the nbt/btc market instead of the nbt/usd market” Couldn’t you?

Many don’t realize these two market compete with each other. Although it’s true that there is little speculation space in the nbt/usd market so there is not as much activity.

[Sabreiib]

Many don’t realize these two market compete with each other. Although it’s true that there is little speculation space in the nbt/usd market so there is not as much activity.

I remember in 2014, after @desrever temperorily designed the NBT/BTC pair before NBT trade on exchanges, Jordan made the decision to accept NBT/BTC pair, and I was astonished, this means Nu company becomes a BTC reverse speculation company.

Now Tether is trading on various crypto/Tether pairs, this is the beginning of their bankcrupt if no enough revenue.

[GreatScott]

Take a look at Tether. They do not, and have never, provided BTC market liquidity. But the result of that has brought them to a level of volume in the BTC market that we couldn’t achieve even when subsidizing it with large and expensive walls on a tight spread.

They don’t even have to pay anybody for liquidity!

[GreatScott]

Now Tether is trading on various crypto/Tether pairs, this is the beginning of their bankcrupt if no enough revenue.

Adding additional crypto markets doesn’t harm tether’s bottom line since they only support the fiat/tether peg. The rest of the markets just fall into line.

Their bankruptcy will come when governments raid the Tether bank accounts or they confiscate funds from a ‘bad actor’.

[Sabreiib]

they are smart by avoiding btc pair, but they still have expenditure: employees, rent house etc.

[GreatScott]

They supposedly prove their USD reserves. Reserves are always higher than outstanding. What is their overhead? I imagine it is practically nothing.

[Phoenix]

Take a look at Tether. They do not, and have never, provided BTC market liquidity.

Some bot has consistently provided very good liquidity on the Poloniex BTC/USDT at less than a 1% spread. I don’t know who is running the bot, but most likely Tether is offering the liquidity.

It appears Tether followed our lead in regard to providing liquidity on BTC pairs, and for good reason.

[GreatScott]

You could run a 1% bot on polo and make a small profit thanks to tether being listed on BitFinex. They did not follow our lead, as you say. And like we can’t prove you are Jordan Lee, you cannot prove Tether did what you allege.

[Sabreiib]

They supposedly prove their USD reserves. Reserves are always higher than outstanding. What is their overhead? I imagine it is practically nothing.

If you buy something at $1 and sell it at 1$, you have no profit, so what’s the point of your business? In real world, how many businessmen dare to do business without proper revenue model?

Or Tether has a long term plan: they just provide free service to cultivate customers habit, and after many years they will harvest.