[Passed] B&C Exchange should trade all US-NBT for NSR

[ConfusedObserver]

The more I write about revenue and get ignored by Phoenix foremost, the more I’m convinced that this is only a pump&dump scheme, maybe even a scam in the form of a ponzi scheme.

I’m sorry that BKS holders are getting roped into it.
Blocks&Chains at least has a revenue scheme opposed to Nu.

[jooize]

How would you have done it? I see few options and none was easy to choose.

1. Completely ignore the market and set the price according to the previous days.
2. Pick the price the market briefly recovered to after the motion passed.
3. Compromise arbitrarily.
4. Use the exact price.
5. …?

1–3 may be a violation. 4 would be surrendering to market manipulation. I opted for #3. Both sets of shareholders passed the motion. It would otherwise have resulted in a −13% disadvantage for B&C. Ignoring the market doesn’t seem right either.

I urge to use more robust phrasing for price determination in the future.

[Dhume]

I’ve already stated how I would have done it use 1 NBT = 1 USD we could have used part of the proceedings from the NSR sales to pay back B&C. This would significantly increase the likelihood of B&C being finished and be beneficial to NSR holders and by proxy NBT holders as well in the long run. Instead now B&C dev fund gets a 20% cut and an illiquid NSR asset that is likely further to devaluate due to increased dilution by phoenix. His plan is awfull but alas he has an absolute majority in minting shares most likely directly under his own control so we can’t do anything about it. His will is law there is no DAO………

[Phoenix]

The extreme volatility in the US-NBT price at the time the deal closed makes choosing a fair price difficult. There are a number of methods that could be used to derive it. Each has advantages and disadvantages. There isn’t a good way to arrive at consensus on the best approach, especially when the best approach depends on your own personal interests and investments. This demonstrates the advantage of having someone appointed to just make a decision in a transparent manner. Otherwise, we would never be able to move forward. @jooize was appointed by shareholders to make that decision. While there is room for argument about the fairest price, @jooize’s decision is fair and reasonable. I support it. Due to the level discretion that had to be exercized, he is being criticized. Obviously, BlockShare holders want a higher price, while NuShare holders want a lower price. That guarantees a certain level of dissatisfaction.

I urge to use more robust phrasing for price determination in the future.

Fair enough. I had intended for you to have discretion in the price. Otherwise, the motion would have said we would use the last trade price. I had thought of the possibility of actors rigging the price on the open market for a number of hours, but I didn’t address that possibility effectively in my motion language.

[Phoenix]

Some people seem to think that Nu and B&C are quite independent. They will have more independence later, but it has been obvious to me that B&C cannot succeed if Nu is in shambles. We have to get NuBits on a firm footing before we can expect to make a good effort on B&C. Whether B&C has NuBits or NuShares in its development fund, it is still dependent on the success of Nu. BlockShare holders, can we all admit we have to support Nu? Is it not obvious where B&C is about to take delivery of 309 million NuShares?

[Phoenix]

Here are the addresses needed to complete this operation:

• All B&C Exchange US-NBT will start at this address under my control: BJLmVRdGFi4q7Zidwzr4CPPsLT6pozR31a. I will transfer 12,288 to another address to be burned immediately.

• I will then transfer 31,107,686 NSR from the latest liquidity operations custodial grant to the B&C wallet.

• The custodial grant address under my control for 278,470,500 NSR that will belong to B&C Exchange is SSajkovCPXwdw46nyJ7vpTDkwtRZJzyY2z.

I will create a formal grant request on Daology, but voting on the NSR grant for B&C should begin now.

[Dhume]

The problem is the only way to get Nu back on track is endless dilution, by transforming B&C’s Nubits into NSR you now make B&C part of that dilution as well. Not only did you make B&C pay for an extensive buyback program by buying Nubits with B&C bitcoins, you then spend those bitcoins on an NSR buyback. Now you request B&C to buy NSR with their Nubits and then keep diluting NSR to pay off the rest of the Nu debt.

You are making B&C pay for Nu’s immense debt when you already made B&C pay for the NSR buyback program to begin with. This is absolute insanity and nothing short of theft, however you somehow managed to get a majority control of active minting shares so shareholder are powerless. Most likely you reserved a large amount of shares for yourself during the ICO. We shareholders can never verify this as you’ve never given insight into B&C finances despite multiple requests.

[ChrisS]

Boom.

[Phoenix]

This is absolute insanity and nothing short of theft

I wouldn’t characterize it that way, but however we choose to describe the loss of the peg, no one is more responsible than you, where you hold a key to both BTC and NSR reserves but refused to use them to support the peg. You, yes you @Dhume , are responsible, along with a couple other people, for the value B&C lost when you abandoned the peg. I didn’t have a part in that at all. What I did do, almost all by myself, was increase the value of B&C fund by about $80,000 USD when I raised the value of US-NBT from below $0.20 to around $0.85.

You should thank me. I rescued the vast majority of the B&C fund from your incompetent and defiant actions.

[Dhume]

Your beyond delusional you are single handily responsible for destroying literally hundreds of thousands USD of B&C raised ICO funds by selling them at their bottom value for a “stable” currency that failed by and large because you the same person decided it was a good idea to waste 555 bitcoins on an NSR buyback program that bought back what? 80 milion NSR. What a great investment, what a splendid idea destroying 2 large project in a single move. Yes pat yourself on the back for bankrupting not just Nu but by your sole auctions but also a complete and viable project in B&C Exchange. We now realize why you are so secret about your real life identity you must be fearing legal repercussions from you illegitimate auctions.

Maybe it’s time you acknowledge that the NSR buyback program was beyond stupid, that putting all of the B&C raised funds 1 basket was stupid instead of trying to shift the blame to FLOT. No one is buying it you can drop the act.

[Phoenix]

Maybe it’s time you acknowledge that the NSR buyback program was beyond stupid

Sorry, I can’t do that. Rather, I am working hard to quickly get NuBit demand to a place where we can have a large, extended NSR buy back program.

[Dhume]

Because the first one was so succesfull right? Pure comedy this is.

[Phoenix]

@Dhume you seem to be upset that the NSR sale prices have generally been lower than NSR buy prices. That is a tendency likely to continue. Rather than being jealous about it, may I suggest you buy NSR now at low prices with the hope to sell them for more in the next NSR buyback? It is the kind of return people who help now, in our time of need, deserve.

[Phoenix]

I have received B&C Exchange development funds in the amount of 122,287.5057 US-NBT at BJLmVRdGFi4q7Zidwzr4CPPsLT6pozR31a.

[Dhume]

Your plan is simply dilute NSR as long as necessary, since there are still many NBT left outstanding this dilution is likely to continue for a long while. By putting B&C Nubits in NSR you choose to dilute B&C fund along with the rest of the N|SR. This is insane B&C should not have to pay for Nu losing its peg rather Nu should make an extra effort to pay off B&C even if that means putting other Nubit holders in line behind them. I’ve stated my reasoning many times the best shot for Nu and thereby other Nubit holders to get out of this mess is to get B&C finished at least then a steady revenue stream (B&C income) can be used to buy NSR continuously.

I really don’t know why you are so against this plan as its much safer than yours. Right now all priority including Nu’s should be to get B&C running as quickly as possible as it’s by far the best chance you have to get both projects out of this mess. Your plan likely leads to further NSR dilution and thereby even less B&C funds meaning this project will never be finished because there are no funds to finish it with.

[Phoenix]

B&C should not have to pay for Nu losing its peg

I heartily agree. Unfortunately, you and a small number of other signers and gateway operators decided B&C would in fact pay for Nu losing the peg. You decided all NuBit holders would pay when you withheld funds to support the peg. I have always been opposed to peg abandonment, but you got your way on this one. How can you complain?

[Dhume]

The sheer irony of point the finger and playing the blame game when you are the one that put all the B&C bitcoins into Nubits at the lowest possible BTC price. When you are the one who proposed to sell off the reserve that led to us having not enough BTC to maintain the peg. Cleary you have a majority stake in the network so any auction you think caused the peg to break you could have prevented. Don’t come in late and make claims you can never prove yet ignore the huge and obvious mistakes that you yourself made. It’s funny how everyone involved with Nu acknowledges those mistakes except the one person who made them.

You have a chance to save both Nu and B&C, do the right thing and use your efforts to make the B&C dev fund whole again. Finnish the project and you might not just save B&C but Nu as well.

[Phoenix]

I really don’t know why you are so against this plan as its much safer than yours. Right now all priority including Nu’s should be to get B&C running as quickly as possible as it’s by far the best chance you have to get both projects out of this mess.

Despite our many disagreements, there is potential for understanding on this issue. B&C is an experimental software project that is mostly unfinished. I think it will take quite a bit of time to finish it. Once “finished”, we will set very low maximum trade sizes (maybe $1 at first) and fix bugs for a long time. If all goes well, after many months of development and many more months of testing, we will have months of polishing to do in the production network. Then, if we are lucky, it will only take months to begin to develop modest volume. We don’t seem to have an active developer right now due to all the chaos recently, so the countdown to completion has not even begun.

Much of the disagreement between myself and other such as yourself about whether to focus on B&C or Nu is based on a disagreement about the time it will take to finish B&C. I think it is going to be a while. Regardless, funding is in the form of NSR, so we better make sure Nu succeeds.

@Dhume all the losses have created a lot of frustration in you, me and everyone here. The right thing to do at this point is to work together to create gains. That is rather easy to do with BlockShare and NuShare prices down so far. Getting part way back to where we were share price wise will be a huge percentage gain from here, and ease everyone’s frustrations. Let’s do it!

[Dhume]

We have no active developer right now because the whole development fund was held by Jordanlee who disappeared. Now you have claimed the fund and turned it into NSR instead of my plan which would have meant development could have started today. Instead we are now going to wait months and pray for an NSR price increase and if that never comes the project is dead in the water.

[Phoenix]

pray for an NSR price increase and if that never comes the project is dead in the water.

I’m not praying. I’m working and planning. I think it will work, although there are a great number of uncertainties. Among those uncertainties are the fate of the liquidity operations BTC and NSR reserve held by you and others. Can you help by using those funds in a useful manner that is compliant with shareholders directives?

Even if NSR never goes up (which I believe is unlikely), people tend to underestimate the resilience and staying power of these kind of blockchain based projects. If we show good progress with the funds on hand, we can get more.