Park Rate Voting


#593

LOL


#594

Stand corrected. Highest reserves since we paid dividends indeed.


#595

LOL :joy: Yes I believe nothing is created out of thin air, but wait, don’t most coins have thin air value? We supposedly have some type of reserve right? This still sounds safer that sh*t coins in my opinion, yes it is religious I am highly religious in investing that is why I always win (not :grin:)


#596

Most coins don’t operate in the costly business of providing a hedge for BTC.
As Nu has no re-insurance for BTC volatility and successful hedging, it can be expected that trading with a close spread leads to a loss.
A spread would need to be a function of trading volume and volatility to have a chance to make enough money to pay for the costs like costs from hedging, exchange default, opportunity costs.

Other coins just have a blockchain running, which provides incentive for processing transactions. The rewards for processing the tx are more or less created from thin air. But they follow protocol and you can make calculations about the ROI for providing efforts.

Be careful. You can game the market of NSR.

  • Buy NSR.
  • Buy NBT.
    If the reserve threshold is 50%, buy at least as much NBT as are currently in circulation. Adjust the amount of NBT according to the reserve ratio, if it’s not 50%.
  • Trigger NSR buybacks.
  • Sell NSR.
  • Dump all NBT, empty the reserve and trigger an NSR sale.
  • Rinse and repeat.

The problem here is: this doesn’t follow a reliable protocol.
The reserve ratio etc. can be adjusted at the whim of the (Vice) Chief of Liquidity Operation.
If you have an appetite for risk, you may try :wink:
It’s less risky if you can take shortcuts.

For example if you can skip the “buy NSR” part, because you received a load of NSR as “angel investor”, although you might never have had to pay a single Dollar for them.
Ah, of course all I say is tinfoil hatter’s craziness. Don’t take it serious :wink:
But can you tell me the total amount of Nu’s dev fund? Did the seed investors really pay for the NSR they received? Or was that a farce to provide the base for a double-tracked project, one in which the architect couldn’t lose, but only win this way or another way?
It’s hard to tell, because little information about that is publicly available.

While I need to make an effort to think of such crazy stories it would be little effort to debunk all that, if only there was a public and complete accounting of this most transparent corporations that has ever been created.


#597

This doesn’t work if others happen to buy NBT at the same time, or the reserve ratio is increased in response to rapid NBT sales.

Given this, the cost of trying it is very high & success a long way from guaranteed, so success would be very difficult and rinsing & repeating even more so.


#598

Right, but look at how stable the amount of NBT in circulation is unless an NSR buyback shall be triggered:


Source: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nubits/ with charts set to 3m

Are you able to ignore how this (post from May 13)

was a direct consequence of the massive sale of NBT on May 4?

The real risk is that you don’t know what happens at Nu with regard to reserve ratio.
That’s why only people who are in control and knowledge can pull off these kinds of attacks:

Both happened before. More than once. You really don’t want to acknowledge the possibility and rather say

while I say “This works if…” and even tell how.


#599

I do acknowledge the possibility, as I have a number of times recently in my calling for reserve ratios to be increased and pointing out this possible attack myself.

In this reply I was pointing out why it’s not as easy to game the system as your post made it appear.

That’s not to say it’s impossible. I think an attempt may have been in progress prior to the discussion about raising reserve ratios, and think we’re still in prime high-risk territory due to the recent dump in NSR following poloniex delisting and low NBT circulation.

So I agree that this is a valid attack vector, and we’re in a very high risk situation regarding it right now. But it is possible to reduce the risk and make the risk not likely to be worthwhile to an attacker.


#600

I beg your pardon for having ignored that.

It is and Nu would be well advised to keep the reserve rate as close to 100% as possible, while evading risks of holding reserve as good as possible.
If Nu manages to make a profit if these objectives have been achieved, then Nu has a future. If not, then game over.


#601

Agreed. Even 70-80% reserves would make an attack a fair bit more expensive than 50%.

Again, agreed. Revenue models must be developed if Nu has a bright future.


#602

Of course!
If you have 50% reserve an attacker needs to inflate the NBT supply by factor 2 with his buys (buying the amount of NBT in circulation) to be in control of depleting the reserve after the reserve has been wasted on NSR buybacks until it reached 50% again.

At 80% reserve the attacker needs to inflate the NBT supply by factor 5 (buying four times the amount of NBT in circulation).
Way more risky. Way more costly. Basic math. Nu lacks it way too often.

Low reserve ratios are an invitation to attack, especially if the total amount of NBT in circulation is low.


#603

That’s one of my top priorities, but just as has been all year other more important tasks appear. We have a developer working with us on the website now.

We did have access. I’ve made a few minor changes.


#604

You are now directly spreading misinformation. For NuShare buybacks the NuBits in circulation has always been determined independently of what’s displayed at CoinMarketCap. I have contacted them a few times to update their data.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

That rise reflects them simply updating their supply figure. Circulating US NuBits was 133,855 US-NBT on January 27 and have not dipped below that in any supply count since. The 24h volume on May 4 was only $1,050.

Administrators @Cybnate and @woolly_sammoth: Where will the line be drawn?


#605

I know there’s a lot to do, but has any progress been made with any kind of live view of the amount of NBT in circulation, or a historical chart? I seem to remember there was talk of this being considered / worked on, but wanted to ask in case it’s already available.


#606

Yes. @woolly_sammoth will be able to give a more detailed report.


#607

Are you nuts you idiot? You are the Vice Chief of Ponzi Operations. It is your job to explain what’s going on. Do you think that is how being the boss works? Call for censorship whenever you think it’s time? Even worse, it demonstrates how dumb you are. Let’s assume you disproved @ConfusedObserver’claims, wouldn’t you want that stuff to be public? My god…@cybnate and @woolly_sammoth, I think @ConfusedObserver really crossed the line by expressing his personal opinion. Could you please ban @ConfusedObserver? I know he didn’t use bad words like I do, but he is trying to work against @jooize’s economic incentives and that is indictable in Nu world. Ban him!


#608

Then I let mostly others talk.
Some quotes are not sorted chronologically to enhance readability. I think it’s just one by @DavidMc0, which I put in between .


#609

You two don’t have that card to play.

You two have for a long time been beelining any chance to spread your view of Nu being a scam.

Your posts are often summarized by (while not all applying to both of you):

  • “Phoenix is majority shareholder at least counting voting or maybe even circulating NuShares.”
  • “A majority-owned project is failed.”
  • “Phoenix obviously stole the ‘lost’ NuShares.”
  • “Phoenix, jooize, and everyone working for Nu are corrupt scammers because …!”
  • “The Nu liquidity model sucks.”
  • “Why aren’t you answering all of our questions after I didn’t research properly, made ignorant accusations, and rarely acknowledge being wrong or strengthen my statement but move on to the next circumstance that should be criticized for the interests of those who don’t have the same understanding as I do?”
  • “I don’t care about Nu.”
  • “I know how to make Nu profitable. I’ve told you how. It’s by not even trying to do what you’re attempting. Why aren’t you implementing my idea instead of what you believe in?”
  • “Until you implement my ideas or other ideas this project is a scam.”
  • “You will not succeed.”
  • “What jooize calls for is censorship because what we post is what we think is relevant.”

This forum has seen respectable critics over the years. You are not, and do not appear wanting to be.

The forum prides itself on allowing dissent, which I absolutely agree with. However! In any fair neutral discussion group there must be a point at which exclusions are made. Otherwise it’s possible to shift exposure of views to any degree.

Fair moderation takes time, energy, and understanding of the topic. When a participant continually breaches the difficult to define reasonable amount of discussion space or the discussion conduct code, moderators must act to protect the ability for the rest of the participants to discourse according to what they believe and observers to discern every position.

I don’t expect opposition on those points.

That’s for a neutral discussion group. Any entity (project, company, individual, …) with their own discussion group can further limit and specify terms for what they allow and act on if the owners accept the risks to credibility.

Moderators can allow repeatedly offending participants to stay, and only remove posts after they’ve been reported and analyzed. I suggest keeping letting them have an impact is not philosophically fair even in a neutral discussion group.


#610

Listen you little clown, go and provide an explanation why you bought Nushares at a too high price a week ago. You said there is no valid excuse. Did you reimburse shareholders? I can’t prove you bought your own Nushares, but seriously, what the heck did you do when your job is to compare two exchanges and buy Nushares wherever they are cheaper. If you fail at doing that, what do you want me or us to believe? What the heck is it that I should think about you? That you are dumb? That you are a scammer? Or what is it? Two exchanges and you bought Nushares at 16 satoshis while they were available for 10 satoshis at the other exchange. Should we believe that you simply overlooked the fact that Nushares could be bought at 10 sats? @jooize you are stealing money or wasting shareholder money, whatever it is, you suck.


Nu just another noble experiment or more?
#611

Your position isn’t “Vice Chief of Liquidity Operations”. It should be called “Vice Thief of Arbitrage Operations”, because that is what you are doing everyday, since there is no single person or board that controls your actions. You are filling your pockets on a frequent basis, asshole. And shareholders who can’t have a look behind the scenes but believe in the project simply swallow that pill, and that makes me angry, really angry.


#612

my god, I can’t calm down now because you are the ignorant person here, not me. What happens if you present us a story that 30 BTC were stolen from an address that you control? What then? Nobody is going to invest into this project as long as the control structure is as it is. Don’t you understand that? I believe that the idea Nu is pursuing is great. The way Nu tries to accomplish that is extremely disappointing. It MUST be ensured that funds can’t be stolen or lost. You are always saying that “failure is human” and at the same time you attest @Phoenix to be able to pull off an incredibly difficult project. Yes, failure is human. Be transparent right from the start, share the information you have, stop hiding because hiding is bullshit if you are honest. Look at all the projects growing to the moon right now. Do you think any of the developers is afraid to end up in jail? This is so ridiculous. There are reasons for @Phoenix / @JordanLee to hide. It is disappointing that B&CExchange’s Nushares are now gone. And shareholders simply have to swallow that pill. “I apologize for losing your funds”. Bam, that’s it. I am really shocked about your behavior, not mine. I am calling you names, you are stealing my money. And now you ask me to be more polite. This is fucking cynical. @phoenix converted all B&C BTC into NBT and used the proceeds for NSR buybacks. The B&C dev fund was gone within a blink of an eye. @Phoenix then decided to make B&C becoming an NSR shareholder with the funds that were left. Those funds are gone now. Who is to blame? Tell me who is to blame? Am I to blame? I trusted you guys a lot, or not you because you are a serious amateur scammer. But I trusted @JordanLee really really a lot. I threw money at him and said to others that he was a safe bet. @JordanLee turned into a maniac, “lost” funds three times, asked people who raised concerns to write their shit down on a piece of paper and flush it down the toilet. Nu really caught my eye you fucking idiot. But it disappointed me big time. The idea behind it remains compelling. The problem is not the idea, the problem is @jooize and @Phoenix.