Minting Pool

[Brood_Groom]

Hi! I´m a new NuShares holder, but I don´t have much money so I only have 5000 Nushares.
Today I read that is necesary for minting 10000Nubits, I want to mint but I don´t have enought.
Will be in the future a low minimal for minting? For example 5000 NuShares.
If not, is there a minting pool where I can snd mi balance and get a part of the mint?
Thanx!

[creon]

The minting process in NuShares is much more than simple block production. If you are not willing to keep up with the current proposals, then you actually shouldn’t try to generate blocks at all.

However, if you want to cast votes and you find people who share your opinion regarding the votes, then you can set up a multisignature address and sign blocks collectively if you together have 10k shares.

You could even do it anonymously by using a trusted centralized service that matches votes and creates N-of-M multisig addresses where each N of these addresses have 10k together. M should be sufficiently larger than N, so people who don’t have their wallet running don’t hinder block production.

[Brood_Groom]

So there is not a minting pool?
I saw something like that on peercoin. Is possible to make something like that in NuShares?

[sigmike]

if you want to cast votes and you find people who share your opinion regarding the votes, then you can set up a multisignature address

Multisig addresses cannot find blocks. It’s possible to make it work but it requires a way for the clients having the addresses to communicate automatically when a valid kernel is found (to sign the transaction and the block), and a change in the protocol. That’s quite some work.

So there is not a minting pool?

No.

I saw something like that on peercoin. Is possible to make something like that in NuShares?

Yes, what @kac did on Peercoin would work on NuShares. But it’s not really a minting pool. It’s more like someone having enough shares adds your shares when he finds a blocks so that you can get your reward. You don’t help him find the block.

[sigmike]

You don’t help him find the block.

So it doesn’t really make sense in NuShares because the reward is constant. You can’t really get “your reward”.

[zoro]

you may propose a motion to change the minting mechanism to lower the minimum to 5000 NSR. if it is voted then you are good.
or else you should try to buy 5000 more.
this is the good thing with NU system. everything can be changed via voting, or nearly anything

[creon]

, and a change in the protocol

Why is a hard fork required to implement that? Client would only need to accept and relay partly signed transactions in the memory pool. If I receive a block that only requires my signature, then I sign it and can compare it against the target and broadcast the finalized block to the network if the target was met. Otherwise I sign the candidate with my key and rebroadcast the partially signed block.

Could be done in a soft fork, or am I missing something? I thought multisig staking is already possible in the peercoin codebase, because I know at least two PoS dev trees which have it, and peercoin was always ahead of them.

And its not about the block reward, its about casting votes, and with the recent increase in the price per 10k shares services like mentioned in the OP will soon be very desirable.

[sigmike]

Why is a hard fork required to implement that?

Because in Proof of Stake the block also needs to be signed and the current block signature check doesn’t support multisig.

I thought multisig staking is already possible in the peercoin codebase

No, only pay-to-pubkey scripts are supported: https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L2116-L2139

Actually to be precise, the input can be a multisig, but not the output. So you can mint from a multisig address (if you make your client support that) but you have to send the output to a standard address. Or at least the first output.

its not about the block reward, its about casting votes

Then kac’s pooled minting (or any shared minting) wouldn’t help because there’s only one vote per block.

[creon]

So you can mint from a multisig address (if you make your client support that) but you have to send the output to a standard address.

OK so this would allow a partly trusted centralized service to work. You can sign up at the service by providing a certain amount of NSR and a set of votes. The centralized service matches sets of votes and all people within a matching set up a multisig address where the coinstake tx output is a standard address owned by the centralized service. The centralized service has to redistribute these rewards accordingly.

The only risk I see here is that the service could run away with the block reward. Voting is safe, since each customer can check the coinbase string to see if the voting matches his or her request. The funds of each customer are also safe through multisig (redundancy may be required).

This way shareholders with X% of 10k shares would be able to cast X% of one vote.

[Brood_Groom]

I was thinking exactly in creon´s idea.
It´s hard to thrust in a 3th centralized service but I think that it´s what I was looking for.
I would like to add something. You said:
“This way shareholders with X% of 10k shares would be able to cast X% of one vote.” The centralized service may be doing the minting work with theirs computers, so will he ask for a fee? It must be obviously a lower feee than a mining cloud. Am I right?
Thanx for everyone replies!

[creon]

The service provider doesn’t need to create coin stake, it only serves as middle man to set up the multisignature addresses. Every client then either selects a set of coin outputs and creates a partially signed block, or it receives a partially signed block and adds its signature.

Of course the service provider will ask for some kind of compensation, but since this is not much more than a running linux server, the fee should be small (competition will define it).

EDIT: of course you can also imagine a fully centralized “bank” where I can deposit my shares and let them do all the staking. It requires a lot more trust though, not just regarding the funds but also regarding the votes.