Got unwanted Blockshares due to holding Nushares? Sell them!

[masterOfDisaster]

Let’s say we charge people 0.15% fee per transaction.

The fee model of BCE will be solely based on the size of transactions (order, deposit, withdraw, etc.) and not on processed value. It will be hard to adjust them to a fee per trading volume. But I appreciate your efforts in an estimation of BCE revenue.
Have a look here if you are interested in my take of BCE’s fee structure: [Passed] Motion to provide seed funding for B&C Exchange - a decentralized exchange built on the Peershares platform.
This post contains no numbers, but a concept.

Also as a shareholder I would be hesitant with generating additional BKS later on. Once we’re at a point they can easily be sold for more than $4 dollar each the exchange is probably already generating revenue.

BKS would be generated if the money from selling them would be needed. If a part of the BCE revenue would per motion be used to pay bills, it would be ok as well.
Why is this a reason to sell BKS cheap now, ignore the different risk seed investors and early funders have and keep the sell pressure from the ~50,000 BKS on the market price?

world’s safest online wallet, complete with mobile support for android and IOS

As soon as multi signature deposits are possible and the first website offers convenient access to the BCE blockchain you already have that.
There’s no need to develop apps for different mobile phones - they have a browser! The website should have a fancy mobile version for that
If no website starts offering such a service (likely for a fee), it would be more transparent to create a grant for funding exactly that: a website funded and and operated by BCE with a fancy mobile version; this way BCE can even collect the fees from the website

Now I’m sure we need a lot of extra funding for this to become reality

I don’t think so. Even if BCE does, the BKS holders can vote for a BKS grant to create and sell BKS to fund it (see above). There’s no need to sell BKS cheap now or soon and especially not for the same price if the risk has been dramatically reduced by showing the world the first working iterations of BCE that can process orders.

If you really think that BCE needs a lot more money, buy BKS from BCE before a motion passes that stops the sale

[Dhume]

[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:30, topic:2477, full:true”]The fee model of BCE will be solely based on the size of transactions (order, deposit, withdraw, etc.) and not on processed value. It will be hard to adjust them to a fee per trading volume. But I appreciate your efforts in an estimation of BCE revenue.
Have a look here if you are interested in my take of BCE’s fee structure: [Passed] Motion to provide seed funding for B&C Exchange - a decentralized exchange built on the Peershares platform.
This post contains no numbers, but a concept.[/quote]

As is my understanding would it not be possible to require additional BKC for a transaction based on the size of that transaction? Thus approximating a percentage fee like 0.15%? So one would have a flat rate minimum but for larger transactions it would require additional BKC.

[quote]BKS would be generated if the money from selling them would be needed. If a part of the BCE revenue would per motion be used to pay bills, it would be ok as well.
Why is this a reason to sell BKS cheap now, ignore the different risk seed investors and early funders have and keep the sell pressure from the ~50,000 BKS on the market price?[/quote]

Personally I would find it less appealing to invest into something where from the get go the intention is to dilute originals shares by generating extra to raise funds. I much rather see revenue from the exchange used for additional funds. It’s a nice idea when you hold X % of shares your relative position will remain unchanged in the future, owning 1% now is owning 1% in 5 years.
Not necessarily sell them cheap now but my whole point is raising additional funds now for extra added functionality to increase future value of the exchange.

[quote]As soon as multi signature deposits are possible and the first website offers convenient access to the BCE blockchain you already have that.
There’s no need to develop apps for different mobile phones - they have a browser! The website should have a fancy mobile version for that
If no website starts offering such a service (likely for a fee), it would be more transparent to create a grant for funding exactly that: a website funded and and operated by BCE with a fancy mobile version; this way BCE can even collect the fees from the website [/quote]

I would prefer dedicated apps and a mobile site over just a mobile site. In general from my experience apps tends to work better on phones. You mean the “account” you’d use for the exchange is already the wallet? I understand but I meant more to give the wallet part its own identity, for example my account on BTC-E is essential a multicoin wallet (although being centralized It is vastly different from what B&C Exchange will offer) but it has no identity as wallet. No easy ways to use it as a wallet with payment options to merchants for example.

[quote]I don’t think so. Even if BCE does, the BKS holders can vote for a BKS grant to create and sell BKS to fund it (see above). There’s no need to sell BKS cheap now or soon and especially not for the same price if the risk has been dramatically reduced by showing the world the first working iterations of BCE that can process orders.

If you really think that BCE needs a lot more money, buy BKS from BCE before a motion passes that stops the sale ;)[/quote]

I hope your right, but honestly I don’t know I have a gut feeling it’s not that easy. Maybe it’s a good idea to get some attention from the dev team and ask their view upon these matters?

[masterOfDisaster]

BKC for a transaction based on the size of that transaction?

Exactly that. But whether you send 1 NBT or 1000 NBT might not be a big difference in the size of the transaction. There’ll be voting for a lot of things that have an influence on the fees like (from the design, page 3):“maximum trade size permitted by asset ID”

Personally I would find it less appealing to invest into something where from the get go the intention is to dilute originals shares by generating extra to raise funds.

Where’s the difference between keeping a 50,000 BKS sell wall now or burning them and creating them again from the perspective of dilution?
Regarding dilution it’s the same.
Economically it makes more sense for BCE to sell the BKS when their value is higher, because BCE is functional to some degree.
Why should BCE waste that extra money?

I much rather see revenue from the exchange used for additional funds.

As soon as BCE generates revenue from selling BKC, it can very well be done this way: make a BKC grant with the intention to fund project X with the income from the BKC sale.

I would prefer dedicated apps and a mobile site over just a mobile site. In general from my experience apps tends to work better on phones

How would such a dedicated app run as trustless as your own BCE website at home on your RaspberryPi?
Why would you want to maintain several apps for several mobile phone operating systems, if a sophisticated mobile version of the website provides access in a more simple and if done properly equally convenient way?

I for one would prefer images for RaspberryPi provided by BCE to host an own “BCE exchange website” over dedicated apps.

[Dhume]

Exactly that. But whether you send 1 NBT or 1000 NBT might not be a big difference in the size of the transaction. There’ll be voting for a lot of things that have an influence on the fees like (from the [design][1], page 3):“maximum trade size permitted by asset ID”

I Understand that for us it makes no difference if a transaction is 1 or a 1000 NBT (unless we vary amount of multi sigs required based on transaction size) but if we don’t strive to have an equivalent of a percentage fee we’re in essence either promoting large or small trades. I think it would be best to remain as neutral as possible and thus would prefer something that would be the equivalent of a flat percentage fee.

[quote]Where’s the difference between keeping a 50,000 BKS sell wall now or burning them and creating them again from the perspective of dilution?
Regarding dilution it’s the same.[/quote]
Because if the intent from the start is to dilute shares anything we need funding to some, or at least to me, investing sounds less appealing. I like the idea of having created 212500 shares and not creating new ones in the future unless an emergency comes up.

[quote]Economically it makes more sense for BCE to sell the BKS when their value is higher, because BCE is functional to some degree.
Why should BCE waste that extra money?[/quote]
Because additional funds now will lead to greater value later on due to additional functionality when the exchange go’s live. This is the whole idea behind investing. Sell the shares now so that the additional functionality increases B7C Exchange value later on far outweighing the possible additional funds generated from selling them from a slightly higher price down the road. It’s not wasting extra money but investing it now to increase total value by far more than the extra money generated by selling them slightly more expensive.

As soon as BCE generates revenue from selling BKC, it can very well be done this way: make a BKC grant with the intention to fund project X with the income from the BKC sale.

This is what to me as an investor sounds great. A business generating profit and dividends. Using part of that profit for additional funding instead of diluting its shares and thereby decreasing there value.

[quote]How would such a dedicated app run as trustless as your own BCE website at home on your RaspberryPi?
Why would you want to maintain several apps for several mobile phone operating systems, if a sophisticated mobile version of the website provides access in a more simple and if done properly equally convenient way?[/quote]
Trust me good looking and well functioning apps for mobile phones are some of the best marketing tools we could use to get widespread adoption of our exchange, even if in essense a good mobile version of a browser site would offer the same functionality. We’re trying to sell the use of this exchange to the masses, keep that in mind.

I for one would prefer images for RaspberryPi provided by BCE to host an own “BCE exchange website” over dedicated apps.

They’re not mutually exclusive.

[Sabreiib]

I’d rather have part of that revenue used for additional funds later on instead of diluting existing shares.

Agree.

There are some cryptocurrency projects developers who are dreaming of copying bitcoin’s success by price speculation\bitcoin 2.0 propaganda. They belive a lot of money from nowhere rushing to their project and get enough fund for everything including software developement and marketing.

But their hope usally gone with wind, in their model/ecosystem, if software development demands money, they just issue more cryptos. Bitshares, a perfect example, share price keep going down by dilution.

The key is profit ability, be faithful labors, don’t dream of geting rich over night.

The B&C is quite good because it is probably the first DAC with profit ability in this world.

The cryptocurrency’s potential market is huge, we need to let people be aware of their demands, just like Steve Jobs did, sometimes customers do NOT know their own need.

Build a decentralized exchange,
provide message service(emeth on peermesage)
stop spam email
prevent DDoS attack by charging cryptos
clean those zombie twitter/facebook fans
…

60% information flow on internet is not from human being! If we manage to clean half trash flow rate, our business success beyond my imagination

Could we end the phenomenon of DDoS? If we can, we rewhrite the internet history.
…

For example, in 2020, github website turns on crypto mode which means every customer wanna request service from github have to pay 1NBT to github account in advance on blockchain or B&C online wallet or paypal NBT wallet.

10 minutes passes, customers need to pay another NBT to maintain service, and so on, one day later, after github comfirm these customers are honest customers, they return NBTs to customer’s wallets integrated in browers(IE, safari, chrome).

DDoD attackers will stop their acitvity because they are losing money when github keeps their NBT.

[masterOfDisaster]

I like the idea of having created 212500 shares

If you burn 50,000 BKS now and create 50,000 BKS later, you have exactly that.
But if you want to have another $200,000 for development, you need only 40,000 BKS if you can sell them for $5 - see what I mean?

Because additional funds now will lead to greater value later on due to additional functionality when the exchange go’s live

It doesn’t work!
At the moment nobody buys BKS from BCE!
It’s the same for weeks now.
They all wait and want to buy later at a smaller risk or buy now, but below $4 - if that reminds you of something…

This is what to me as an investor sounds great.

If you want to invest, I suggest you buy from BCE now before a motion gets finalized and the sale gets stopped

good looking and well functioning apps

…are not necessary if a website optimized for mobile devices is made well.

I for one would prefer images for RaspberryPi provided by BCE to host an own “BCE exchange website” over dedicated apps.

They’re not mutually exclusive.

One is quite cheap to develop and provides a trustless website. Which one would you create first?
Or maybe a DigitalOcean droplet? Not as good as a RaPi you have under your physical control, but still better than a foreign website.
Or maybe installer packages for Linux that can be applied to a virtual server?

All of them is cheaper and provides service a level of trust mobile wallet can’t match. You can’t have a complete BCE blockchain on the mobile phone. You need servers to support the lightweight wallet on the mobile phone. You need to trust these…

[Sabreiib]

You can’t have a complete BCE blockchain on the mobile phone.

But I believe my iphone 6s 64G can run complete B&C blockchain and mint.

[Dhume]

[quote]If you burn 50,000 BKS now and create 50,000 BKS later, you have exactly that.
But if you want to have another $200,000 for development, you need only 40,000 BKS if you can sell them for $5 - see what I mean?[/quote]
I understand what you mean but as stated earlier I think investing BKS now at a cheaper price outweighs investing them later at a higher price. Timing is everything my friend.

[quote]It doesn’t work!
At the moment nobody buys BKS from BCE!
It’s the same for weeks now.
They all wait and want to buy later at a smaller risk or buy now, but below $4 - if that reminds you of something…[/quote]
I bet if we do a sort of sale with some form of discount or w/e suddenly a lot more interest will be generated. Also if we set the sale to end within say 2 weeks I would bet we suddenly start selling those 50000 as fresh pies out of the oven.

…are not necessary if a website optimized for mobile devices is made well.

Yet the IPhone vastly inferior to most of its competitors in both ability as price is by far the most successful smartphone out there. Why? Because of niche stuff like appearance, branding etcetc. We need to sell B&C Exchange to the public a mobile app will do wonders in doing so. You severely underestimate the illogic of the public. They choose and use what is easiest and looks best even if it costs a little extra. This is why I think a mobile app would do wonders.

[Sabreiib]

@Dhume

There are maybe some small investors wanna buy less than 500$ BKS when production blockchain available, and there are some big investors wanna buy a lot BKS when CCEDK provide BKS/BTC pairs.

Although I don’t think BKS price will be higher than 4.08$ in a short time, I don’t think it’s cheap either.

[Sabreiib]

Yet the IPhone vastly inferior to most of its competitors in both ability as price is by far the most successful smartphone out there

I feel iphone responds a bit faster than andriod phones, and that feeling is worth of 300$, in my eyes. LOL

[masterOfDisaster]

Timing is everything my friend.

That’s why I think BCE needs to stop selling BKS now

Also if we set the sale to end within say 2 weeks I would bet we suddenly start selling those 50000 as fresh pies out of the oven.

Once the motion to stop BKS sale has been finalized it depends on the participation of BKS holders how fast it can pass; theoretically within less than a week.
Four to five days is easily possible if the participation is sufficient. Including the delay for the sale to stop, I’d sad that within 7 days after the motion has started the sale can be stopped (optimistic version).
Let’s see what happens close to that end

IPhone […] by far the most successful smartphone out there

It depends on how you look at it. Compare it with the market share of Samsung…

You severely underestimate the illogic of the public. They choose and use what is easiest and looks best even if it costs a little extra.

So let them use the BCE exchange website that offers a veeeeery convenient and sophisticated access (mobile phone independent) to their BCE account (for a small fee that increases BCE’s revenue)
Mobile apps can only do wonders if they are better than other solutions - which still needs to be proved for access to the BCE account being accessed by a capable mobile version of a website.

[Dhume]

[quote=“masterOfDisaster, post:40, topic:2477, full:true”]
That’s why I think BCE needs to stop selling BKS now ;)[/quote]

I’d argue the contrary [quote]
It depends on how you look at it. Compare it with the market share of Samsung…[/quote]

It’s not about market share, it’s about profit.

The War Is Over: Samsung Has Finally Capitulated To Apple — As These Two Phones...

So let them use the BCE exchange website that offers a veeeeery convenient and sophisticated access (mobile phone independent) to their BCE account (for a small fee that increases BCE’s revenue)
Mobile apps can only do wonders if they are better than other solutions - which still needs to be proved for access to the BCE account being accessed by a capable mobile version of a website.

You’re trying to argue logic regarding the illogical. It’s not just about offering the best option it’s about getting people to like/believe it’s the best option. People dig apps, apps sell period.

[mhps]

Dhume, it’s good to have you onboard.

Because if the intent from the start is to dilute shares anything we need funding to some, or at least to me,

Printing shares to fund project comes from how Nu has been working. Nu investors seem to have run out of extra fund to support more development so they became willing to liquidate their nushares via diluting (print and sell NSR).

BCE is somewhat different, one may argue. Unlike Nu so far, BCE has an obvious revenue source. Investors don’t have to “sell blood” to fund projects. However at this particular stage of development BCE may still have to sell shares to fund project.

I think the best strategy is rolling out the minimal alpha/beta versions, find bugs early at small costs, and demonstrate an ability to make solid progress.

Please move the website/apps arguement elsewhere. They are interesting but is derailling the main topic.

[Dhume]

[quote=“mhps, post:42, topic:2477, full:true”]
Dhume, it’s good to have you onboard.[/quote]
Thank you for the kind words, happy to be here.

[quote]Printing shares to fund project comes from how Nu has been working. Nu investors seem to have run out of extra fund to support more development so they became willing to liquidate their nushares via diluting (print and sell NSR).

BCE is somewhat different, one may argue. Unlike Nu so far, BCE has an obvious revenue source. Investors don’t have to “sell blood” to fund projects. However at this particular stage of development BCE may still have to sell shares to fund project.[/quote]
I completely agree with you, my argument for pushing the sale of the 50000 now rather then later is simple really. I think that selling those 50000 even if we have to sell them at a discount is better than selling them later even if we could have gotten more funds for them later on. Reasoning being that this is the most critical time in any business, the more funding we have now the better the product will be. The better the product will be upon release to the public (the start of exchange functioning) the more value and eventually revenue it will generate.

Please move the website/apps arguement elsewhere. They are interesting but is derailling the main topic.

I think the topic has long been derailed but I agree enough has been said about the subject.

[masterOfDisaster]

the more funding we have now the better the product will be.

Agreed execpt for the timing.
The funding will bring BCE more money if BKS are not sold for $4 when nobody wants them (now) and for $6 or more when there’s demand (maybe soon^TM).
This is why I’ll finalize the motion to stop the sale of BKS today or tomorrow.
Let’s see what happens then.
Remember: the basic funding is complete. It will allow the creation of BCE.

[crypto_coiner]

I honestly wasn’t aware of the whole Nu project until very recently when I learned of B&C Exchange. Also when I learned of the exchange the action of BKS trough buying NSR was already cancelled. If I had been around earlier I would have bid on NSR to gain BKS.

Thanks for sharing - I personally share @JordanLee and other chief Nu Shareholders’ vision and plan that Nu’s business of selling NBTs will be way more profitable/fruitful than BCE’s business of selling credits.
I am wondering why exactly some members here think BCE is more obvious or will be the first DAC that will generate profits.

[crypto_coiner]

Now I’m sure we need a lot of extra funding for this to become reality which is why in my opinion we NEED to sell the remaining Blockshares.

Did you take part to the last B&C Exchange development seed fundraising?
If not, I would be curious why - thanks for sharing.
After we reached $200k, the fundraising has been going on and accepting extra funds for extra features.

[Dhume]

[quote=“crypto_coiner,
post:45, topic:2477, full:true”]

I am wondering why exactly some members here think BCE is more obvious or will be
the first DAC that will generate profits.

[/quote]

I feel it’s an way easier business model to pull off and is thereby less risky. I do share
the vision that Nushares profitability may completely outperform Blockshares probability
in the end though.

[quote=“crypto_coiner,
post:46, topic:2477, full:true”]

Did you take part to the last B&C Exchange development seed fundraising? If not, I would be curious why - thanks for sharing. After we reached $200k, the fundraising has been going on and accepting extra funds for extra features.

[/quote]

Yes and I know fundraising has been ongoing.

[desrever]

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[Dhume]

Reconfirming previous posted message, would vouch for both users and would recommend @tomjoad to anyone looking for escrow.