Seeing as it will be impossible to do anything else with these funds besides what Phoenix commands (due to him having a majority voting control over the network) I don’t see a reason to not hand over the funds anymore. We cannot get any motion to do otherwise with these funds anyway so might as well hand them over.
1 Like
I agree with this shift. 5 of 8 on the BTC multi sig team was definitely a problem. 4 of 8 would have increased the odds of the funds being used in a manner consistent with shareholder directives. I am undecided on whether 3 of 8 would be better than 4 of 8. Perhaps we can experiment and see how 3 of 8 works with a modest amount of funds.
When we make these kinds of decisions going forward, we need to take into account our experience that theft of multisig funds has not happened. The problem that we have seen is a strong bias toward inaction. We can address that by requiring fewer signers.
I agree. The peg has been restored. So we do not need that additional buy support. Wouldn t it be better to use it for development for example?
1 Like
We are in great need of additional buy support. Accessible reserves stand just a little above $10,000. We need a lot more buy funds for Poloniex, not to mention Tube, Bittrex and HitBTC. There remains an acute shortage of buy side funds. We need this BTC to support our currency. Please transfer it to @jooize’s gateway.
I see. In that case it makes sense.
How does this statement
relate to this one:
Only $10,000 reserves, but $41,000 buy orders.
Are you going to say that somebody is speculating on less than 4% gain by placing $0.96 bets?
Doesn’t it make more sense to suppose somebody tries to pump the market, make NBT look more reliably pegged than it really is?
Who could that be?
Who benefits from that?
How much is $10,000 compared to NBT in circulation?
Are you really continuing to hug the NBT/BTC markets at exchanges despite all the costs, risks and no gain from it?
Aren’t you afraid that somebody forks the codebase, develops a business scheme that provides revenue (most simple case: spread trading), focusses on a currency pegged to USD, trades only in that pair, offers 100% reserves and offers shares for that?
It would start small, but could grow organically. The risk would be small.
Sounds like Tether, but works without the AML/KYC issues.
I bet there are a lot (former) supporters of Nu who would take the risk trying such a different road.
The shares of that corp could be airdropped to the lot who attempts this.
You won’t need extensive development for it, just time, passion and some marketing.
It’s only a matter of time until somebody does it. You can only try to prevent it by being faster.
Having no revenue will break Nu’s neck sooner or later in one way or another.
1 Like
Yes, US-NBT is great deal at $0.96 if you can buy them there, because you can sell them back for $0.995 quickly.
The trader and all shareholders. Which reminds me that you don’t speak like a shareholder or someone who is watching out for shareholder interests. So why are you here? It seems like you have an interest in seeing the project fail.
This is libel, which is illegal and immoral. It is a manifestly false statement intended to cause harm. Stop it.
You’re an absolute comedian pheonix. You’re either that or you’re dillusional, either way you make for a perfect CEO.
Anyway, aside from your batshit crazy accusations, you completely ignored the point that the buy-side liquidity is being provided by someone that could pull it at any moment. The clear insinuation is that you are manipulating the markets for your own profit. Anyway, please continue to ignore these vital questions of transparency and ethics. I’m sure a complete lack of responsible accounting will help you out wonders in your court case against confusedobserver.
1 Like
The drive to be suspicious that every action is part of an elaborate scheme of wrong doing and cheating is a bit excessive here lately. What if it is me that has personally put up all those non-shareholder US-NBT buy orders? Would I be convicted of supporting the peg? Of trying to bring value to NuShares with a strong peg? Of trying to make a little coin with arbitrage? Everyone else has the same opportunity. Whoever is doing that is certainly a friend of NuBits and NuShare holders. If the official buy wall is consumed and a buyer picks up US-NBT for $0.97, he is our friend because he prevented US-NBT from going lower. He gets to sell US-NBT for $0.995 most likely the next day for a small but low risk profit. It is a win-win situation.
Many here seem to have an implicit belief that the transactions in our space are zero-sum: if one loses, another wins. While that is true in some cases, it isn’t very true of the overall situation. It is fairly easy to create a win-win situation that is not zero sum. As we learned in June, it is also relatively easy to create a lose-lose situation in our space, which is what happened. Everyone lost: NuBit holders, NuShare holders, BlockShare holders, decentralized liquidity providers, NuLagoon pool users, pool administrators, @JordanLee and @masterOfDisaster. There were no winners. That is why it was so terribly anti-social. It was just pure destruction. The paranoid among us are still looking for who won in their zero sum mindset, but there were no winners. It bears some relation to the MAD doctrine (mutually assured destruction) of nuclear warfare, even though that metaphor is a bit dramatic. The system is set up so that NuShare holders must protect NuBit holders and keep them whole. If NuShare holders try to impose a loss on NuBit holders, a larger loss is immediately delivered back to NuShare holders. This is designed to prevent NuShare holders from imposing a loss on NuBit holders in the first place, due to the knowledge that an attack on NuBits will induce the market to launch an even greater attack against NuShares. In this respect, the system worked just as designed in June. A premise of the design was that shareholders and liquidity providers would understand this basic dynamic, thereby ensuring they would never press the big red button and attack NuBit holders. But stupidity won the day and the suicidal attack was indeed launched. Idiots. And that is why the network needs me. I know not to press the big red button. As an aside, the events of June make me much more worried about the odds of nuclear war. It shows even when win-win options are readily available, sometimes the anti-social and destructive choice is in fact made due to ignorance. It is very scary.
As long as I continue to be empowered I will ensure nothing so terribly anti-social happens in our network.
Quite on the contrary. From the beginning of my presence here I pointed my finger at things that needed improvement, e.g accounting and revenue.
Had you listened and implemented a revenue scheme first and started mass NSR sale later, you could have sold them at way higher rates.
Nu could have made a new start, but you are instead just trying to prolong the ponzi scheme.
Nu was starting with the funds that were gathered from shareholders.
These funds are gone; wasted in an unsustainable liquidity provision.
The cashflow dried up and the NSR rate crashed.
You repeat the story of the broken peg that caused the NSR crash. Please don’t consider the average shareholder that stupid.
The NSR sell pressure was much higher than the NSR buy pressure, because Nu’s economic scheme was unveiled as deeply flawed.
That’s the story of the NSR crash and the Nu failure you try to ignore. The market doesn’t ignore.
With revenue, you had sold NSR at higher rates (beneficial for shareholders) and might have been able to buy more NBT (good for customers).
Allow me to ask again: how many NBT are still in circulation and not backed by BTC?
I tried to improve Nu, because I wanted to become a shareholder. I found Nu interesting-looking.
With all you did in the last months you put me very far from that idea.
is what you do. You don’t do traders and shareholders a favor. You play a game trying to enrich yourself. You run a ponzi scheme cloaked as Nu.
Pumping and dumping both NBT and NSR is part of that game.
I’m glad that I’m not the only one who recognizes that.
You, @Phoenix fail to recognize, understand, acknowledge what’s wrong with Nu. Or you know it and still act oppositional to what’s good for Nu.
So you are either stubborn or dangerous. Most of your posts make me think it’s the latter.
As you appear to control (directly or indirectly) the majority of the votes, you can do as you please and put the blame on ‘shareholders’, if the inevitable happens.
Corporations can’t be run with hope. They need money.
Not necessarily and of course not if the orders are placed to manipulate the market, which is a likely reason.
The person who was front-running the collapse and could sell tens of thousands of NBT at the pegged rate was no loser.
The shareholders who sold NSR during the buybacks and bought NSR cheap during the selling-off were no losers.
Is it so strange to look at it like both parties might be the same?
They do and ever did. Without revenue NuBits holders are ultimately the ones who will end up with NuBits that nobody wants to buy for BTC or anything else.
Selling NSR on the way and wasting the proceeds doesn’t change that.
In the end there will be NuBits holders with worthless tokens.
You are my hero.
I think about drafting a concept for an improved version of Nu here. It’s up to Nu to absorb that or wait for others to do it.
1 Like
You cherry pick numbers when you report the market statistics. You make snap decisions to short shareholder money at various prices with no apparent rhyme or rythm. You have all the potential to do insider trading and then you admit that you are indeed doing personal trades on the very markets you have insider knowledge of. It all screams of a lack of ethics, accountability, transparency, decentralization, or responsibility. You can keep calling the cries for fair play anti-social, but I would call the dictatorship that has been established here the same.
3 Likes
That is why I raised over $300,000 in the two and a half months I have been Chief of Liquidity Operations. But what have you done to raise funds? Trash talked our network with libel? That is not the action of a friend of Nu.
What you are doing is adding to the lose-lose dynamic that was set in motion in late May. It isn’t appreciated. You act like you are solving problems sometimes, but I ask: what problem, small or large, have you fixed for Nu? I can’t think of anything. You like to act like screaming we need revenue is helpful. I don’t recall you suggesting any sources of revenue that aren’t already in place and have been in place for some time. Instead, it appears you implicitly deny the existence of all the sources of revenue we have and plan to have. That doesn’t help anyone and it isn’t truthful, although I acknowledge it may make you feel better.
What I say to you, I say to everyone: Get helpful or get out. Your negativity is not welcome.
You had NSR created from thin air to back NBT, that were created from thin air after the proceeds from the NBT sale had been spent on development and wasted in an NSR buyback.
I know, this is how Nu is intended to work according to its (flawed) design.
I still say you should have implemented a revenue scheme first and made the sale afterwards.
The damage was already done, the peg broken. You had the perfect chance to make adjustments.
Yet you decided to continue this flawed scheme.
I made a proposal for a token that’s not prone to volatility issues (like the BTC proceeds from NBT trading are) and that has a good marketing reason for being sold at an offset:
There are good reasons to sell NBT at an offset (stable, cash like, yet free from AML/KYC, on a blockchain) as well, but as I can’t convince you of that, I proposed an alternative.
I’m sorry if that proposal isn’t new. I haven’t read all the posts in this forum.
If those sources of revenue are known or in place for so long, may I ask for the revenue they provided?
Give me the numbers, please - how much revenue did Nu make since its beginning?
Your lack of economic skills is not welcome either. Does that make you change your course?
The system is designed to empower any holders with minting.
However the system is also designed to be taken over by big holders.
At the end of the day, Nu will thrive only if it is sufficiently distributed.
Dictatorship is not compatible with blockchain security.
@Phoenix , if he is not stupid, knows that his current big control would have to be distributed over time if he wants to see a big return on his investment.
2 Likes
Verified and signed : 4 of 5-8
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It has been three days with no objections (though it shouldn’t matter if there were). We need the funds now. Buy side is low. Will you put the final signature on and broadcast now please?
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@Cryptog you signed the original transaction by Jooize not the one signed also by Dysconnect and Woodstockmerkle, I’ve signed the right one you can sign mine and broadcast the transaction.
Combined and broadcast.
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TxID: f4ad279951ed7a4552098cf9bfd0e3be2b1e64b3ea4cbf478889fa0a28736077
1 Like
I was waiting for the exact 3-day time when the tx was completely signed.
It’s better not to mix liquidity fund and dev fund next time. It’s difficult to weigh oranges against apples in a short time. Multi-sig group should only need to make simple decitions if timeliness is required.
2 Likes
Oops. Sorry for that.