Asking for a low minting NuShares minimal

[Brood_Groom]

Hi! I wold like to propose a lower min holding on NuShares to minting.
I got the Nu client on mi pc and I want to start minting to help improve the Nu service. I think that as I do, other users would be happy to join minting if the min be, for example, 5K NuShares.
So, the bonus for a block will be halved, but there will be much more users minting blocks. (¿Will Nu be more secure then?).
I wanna hear your opinion about the minimal holding and reward for blocks.
Thanx!

[Cybnate]

It is a debatable where you put the threshold. My opinion is that the current value of $100 (10k NuShares) to be able to vote is reasonable. People with less money at stake tend to be more careless about how they would vote as there is not so much at stake. This wouldn’t benefit the network.
When the value of NuShares increases tenfold from the current value we might need to reassess that. Just my opinion.

[mhps]

If the voting threshold halfs, should the protocol wait 20000 blocks to count so the voting period is about the same? The mint reward will change from 40 to 20. Some existing proposals may need to change text.

[sigmike]

So, the bonus for a block will be halved, but there will be much more users minting blocks.

If the voting threshold halfs, should the protocol wait 20000 blocks to count so the voting period is about the same? The mint reward will change from 40 to 20.

If we lowered the threshold we wouldn’t have to change the bonus nor the voting periods because there would still be a block about every minutes. Even the difficulty would barely change. A 5k output would just have fewer chances of finding a block than a 10k output.

But it would change a small thing: the optimal output size to maximize voting power and reward would be 5k instead of 10k. So shareholders would switch their automatic output splitting to 5k and that would increase the size of the blockchain. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s just something to balance.

[mhps]

You are right. The block time is always around 1min. The probability to find a block by a share in a given period is the same for the same diff.
I have calculated the optimum size of block if there were no constraint, based on how many shares one have, totoal network minting shares, and the 7-day waiting period. I remember the optimum was about 1k - 2k if one has several million.

[miner]

So shareholders would switch their automatic output splitting to 5k

Where to set this?

[CoinGame]

I can be done from the command line or the conf file. For instance in the conf file:

splitshareoutputs=5000

[creon]

Interesting, this splitshareoutputs config parameter isn’t documented anywhere … Just noticed in coin control that some outputs get chunked into 10k buckets, but not all of them. Can you describe how exactly this partitioning is done internally? And what exactly triggers this procedure?

[miner]

Thanks. If there is no such command in the conf file, will the default value set at 10k?

[mhps]

I can be done from the command line or the conf file. For instance in the conf file:

splitshareoutputs=5000

This won;t work actually. Default of current client is such that if an output finds a block, outputs smaller than 10000 shares in the same address will be combined to output between 10000 and 20000. I don’t know if changing splitshareoutputs affect this. But I am pretty sure that outputs with less than 10000 shares won’t find blocks by current protocol.

There was a discussion related to this. also this.

[CoinGame]

I was just explaining how users can change the default shares split. It was not meant to be related to the overall discussion.

We do need to add this configuration to the documentation which I will do shortly.

[CoinGame]

Yes, that is the default.

[sigmike]

I don’t know if changing splitshareoutputs affect this.

It does.

I am pretty sure that outputs with less than 10000 shares won’t find blocks by current protocol.

You’re right.

[ttutdxh]

The very purpose of setting a high number of NuShares required for minting is so not everyone can vote.

As in https://nubits.com/nushares/introduction

This limit is in place to prevent blockchain clutter from individuals without a vested interest in the network, while still allowing small shareholders to offer input into network decisions.

The time will come when this number has to be changed. But given the way NuShares have been distributed, it is certainly not yet.

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Aside from that, I think it should be calculated from the blockchain data and a predefined voting-shareholder percentage (maybe set by a motion?).

Lets say we want the 60% of shareholders to vote, we scan the blockchain and read the lowest balance of the 60% richest addresses and there we have the new minimum. Of course this adds the risk of people splitting their shares between multiple addresses and generating “virtual shareholders” for the calculation.

These are some rough ideas, but I think the minimum value should be somewhat based on blockchain data.

[woodstockmerkle]

Presumably a lower threshold could expand who could vote.

Given that there are only so many blocks to mint in a period of time, the time it would take to actually mint a block with smaller amount stretches out longer and longer.

Back of napkin: right now with about 360 MM NSR minting, it would take close to a month for the smallest amount (10k NSR) to mint a block / cast a vote.

[sigmike]

I think it should be calculated from the blockchain data and a predefined voting-shareholder percentage (maybe set by a motion?).

This could work to decrease the limit, but not to increase it. If we changed the limit to 10,001 right now almost all the current outputs would suddenly be forbidden to find a block. It may be solved with a very long time before the change becomes effective (to let the automatic split and combine process do its job while blocks are found). Or by making an important change that would not require output splitting but still allow slice of outputs to mint individually like I mentioned here:

Using share days destroyed as vote weight

it may be possible to avoid all these output splittings and still give every slice of 10k shares the same odds to find a block. We may have to remove the min age though, but it may not be a problem if every slice effectively has the same chances of finding a block. But that’s probably for another topic.

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right now with about 360 MM NSR minting, it would take close to a month for the smallest amount (10k NSR) to mint a block / cast a vote.

Since most votes currently span over 1 week, it makes sense to keep the average time to cast a vote not too far from this duration.

[nubition]

Really believe that 10K is the right number any less and you just could get spammed.I am not saying the OP would but too be honest 10K is not that expensive.Finding a block with 5000 wont be that easy if in fact actually possible