[Passed] Promoting Nubits to internet payment processors, exchanges, and gateways

[creon]

I think the motion should define concrete responsibilities, even if its just one person who will be responsible to distribute responsibilities. These person or persons of course have to agree on this beforehand.

From your answer I assume that you would like the Nu dev team to shift some of the team capacity to this endeavor. I would be extremely happy if you can make this happen, but they would have to agree.

[mhps]

Besides that I don’t see what exactly we are voting for in (3) and (4), it sounds more like a good intention. In the end it will all depend on method 3 software that we provide. But again, nobody will feel responsible for it.

I think having some existing PEGs to integrate Nubits to their sites will demonstrate and validate the usecase of using internet e-currency to trade Nubits from a web page. Without such step (Method 2) a developer can write “Method 3” code with skills and vision. But with such step the code could come out in better shape.

[creon]

Without such step (Method 2) a developer can write “Method 3” code with skills and vision.

I really don’t want to be the downer, but this is not going to happen, and if this would be the case then I am asking myself why we invested into the development of the nubot, which is just the same: a tool to support LPCs, in this case on regular cryptocurrency exchanges.

However, the nubot IS required to be delivered by Nu, not because there aren’t people out there who can implement their own method, but because you really need to put a lot of work and passion into it, which in turn requires a deep trust into the project idea, which in turn most likely makes you a shareholder. I think after developing the TLLP I am in a good position to make this claim: People who are not attached to Nu will never take this risk without a monetary compensation that goes beyond their revenue afterwards.

So in the end its again about printing NBT, which we don’t have, so we would need to print more NSR to burn the NBT. Since we are just about to have a >12% dilution, it is questionable if shareholders would be willing to take an additional dilution into account. If they do, then I would do it quickly before BKS launches so you can ask for more NBT to get burned.

[mhps]

Thanks for the comments @desrever

For instance, I find declaring deadlines a bit odd for (at least) two reasons :

I am OK to remove the deadlines as they were not set with good quantitative reasons anyway. The intention is get this going quickly. I think depending on crypto-exchanges and paying high fees to NBT/crypto LPCs to increase Nubits adoption is sinking the boat.

1. you do not specify a penalty for not meeting a deadline, nor responsibilities… Who will “pay”, when and how much? 2) a distributed group of shareholders cannot be completely aware nor in control of the day-to-day schedule of each member of the team.

My first answer post to creon came out minutes before your post so I’d reiterate what I said - I really don’t want to be the manager. I understand everyone is busy with good reason.

I’d do another motion requesting a transparent, standardised, public, overall roadmap .

@cryptog suggested it. I will support the effort if you can give it a go.

From your answer I assume that you would like the Nu dev team to shift some of the team capacity to this endeavor.

If I can do it all by myself I won’t bother to post Some of the tasks such as sending offcial emails are best done by the Nu team.

they would have to agree

From the responses in the rationale thread I gather that people like the idea and no one is against it. It’s a matter of priority whether/when the Nu team member can do it. If they all agree to do what I wish there won’t be the need for a motion. So this motion is here to give the team the basis to set priority to this task.

[mhps]

However, the nubot IS required to be delivered by Nu, not because there aren’t people out there who can implement their own method, but because you really need to put a lot of work and passion into it,

I haven’t done any dev work on nubots. I assume the difficulty in implementing it is mostly due to bitcoin volatility and exchange complexity (orderbook mirroring, wall-shaping etc.). These complexities are greatly reduced with dealing with NBT/USD pair only, and having no orderbook on PEGs. That is why I imagine writing wrapper code to interface with PEGs are much easier. I could be totally wrong.
If you think it is difficulty to develop the Method 3 code, would you agree it makes sense to get it from the PEGs who already done it?

[creon]

If you think it is difficulty to develop the Method 3 code, would you agree it makes sense to get it from the PEGs who already done it?

Here is what you imagined under method 3, correct? The decentralized exchange development watcher thread

[mhps]

Here is what you imagined under method 3, correct? The decentralized exchange development watcher thread

Coinffeine? No. Coinffeine is an application that lets end user to trade in a decentralized way. Method 3 code to let anyone to set up a web site or add something in his/her current webpage so that the users can use the site or the page to buy/sell Nubits.

In short Method 3 code lets anyone who has access to a web server or a webpage (at JS, PHP, html level) to become an exchange or gateway.

[creon]

Sorry I still don’t get the difference. With NBT support in Coinffeine you can just do exactly what you describe, using BTC or OKPay initially. So every plugin for this decentralized trading system would allow for more possible payment gateways for NBT, which everyone could use to provide liquidity against various fiat units without counterparty risk.

EDIT: Thing is if they do not implement it on their own, then we would need to license it to be allowed to provide it to our LPCs, This could become an issue but can be discussed.

[mhps]

There is no guarantee that Coinffeine or any of the DEXes involving fiat will work any time soon.

Even it works it could become a centralized target for government crack down. The Chinese government is able to render eMule, tor, and many other p2p applications and prorocols it doesn’t like mostly unuseable. Method 3 could just use port 80. You can’t disallow it.

Even the application does work, users have to install something locally, which turn off many people.

[creon]

I agree that there are more classical ways to implement method 3 options, but still see Coinffeine as one of them. Everything happens between the traders and on the blockchain, you cannot shut it down and there is no deposit to seize. It requires LockTime, but we said so often now that we want this, that I think a motion to implement this would pass.

In fact every LPC could provide several options for the service, a centralized website or this. This would be just the method getting the coins from A to B, not how to be able to provide this offer in the first place.

[cryptog]

@cryptog suggested it. I will support the effort if you can give it a go

It is actually @crypto_coiner .

[mhps]

In fact every LPC could provide several options for the service, a centralized website or this.

I totally agree that diversity is the key to survival. I hope there will be a plethora of decentralized exchange solutions coming out.

It is actually @crypto_coiner .

oops. Sorry.

[mhps]

I have updated the draft to qualify “exchanges” and “gateways” in the definition of PEG, and remove the deadlines.

[crypto_coiner]

With liquidity provision project efforts oriented towards trading market places (nupool, nulagoon, liiquidbits etc…), LPCs are mostly certainly not going to make any money and this is not due to the exchange being hacked because it is centralized. This is due to the nature of the business. You just cant make any money when you are being used as hedge by an ultra volatile token.

Now question: Are PEGs going to make money for certain (figures needed in the draft) by being NBT LPCs?
If so, this is a no brainer and shareholders should support the draft as we should pivot.

[cryptog]

You just cant make any money when you are being used as hedge by an ultra volatile token.

I agree. Unless you increase drastically the interest rate as I mentioned here.

PEGs going to make money for certain (figures needed in the draft) by being NBT LPCs?

If the pair involved is NBT/USD (which is the case), then yes.

[mhps]

Now question: Are PEGs going to make money for certain (figures needed in the draft) by being NBT LPCs?

All LPC can make money if the fee they get exceeds their expenses and exchange rate loss. It doesn’t matter if it is a PEG that becomes an LPC. The burning question is if the shareholders want to foot the bill for the NBT/BTC LPCs. As @Benjamin pointed out, subsidized NBT/BTC could inhibit NBT/USD peg growth. That is why i think a total cap of LPC fee per month should be in place to stimulate market competition for lower fees.

[cryptog]

That is why i think a total cap of LPC fee per month should be in place to stimulate market competition for lower fees.

In that case, B&C could not be as much profitable as expected. There would be a conflict of interests between Nu sharesholders that want to cap lpc fees, therefore the liquidity provided into B&C and the B&C shareholders that want to maximize trade fees, therefore liquidity, therefore lpc fees overall.
But both shareholders are the same group…Oops.
There would be a dilemma leading to a balanced middle?
We ll see.

[mhps]

There would be a dilemma leading to a balanced middle?

That is what I guess.

Note that for BTC/crypto trading (1/10 volume of BTC/USD currently) there is no conflict.

edit: see post here.

[cryptog]

(1/10 volume of BTC/USD currently)

That s a good point but if we assume that most of the volume would be generated by NBT/BTC at a ratio of 10:1 (like we have in centralized exchanges), that means that most of the revenues should come from NBT/BTC trades…

[cryptog]

You just cant make any money when you are being used as hedge by an ultra volatile token.

Maybe another solution for hedging against volatility on BTC/NBT is to track a volatility index.
When the volatility is high, the fee for exchanging nbt or btc (from the perspective of a trader) with a lpc is high, when the volatility is low, the fee for exchanging nbt or btc with a lpc is low, relatively.

The thing is that Nu cannot keep forever on providing cheap liquidity when volatility is high.
It is basically giving away money.
Sorry for insisting, but I believe this is the major reason why we have seen so fews lpc in 8 months of history…