FLOT US-NBT Operations (sell side)

Right, I misunderstood some things, my apologies.

I still hope NuLagoon Tube and other FLOT members can offer a word for the refund of fees and spreads.

Okay.

So now I understand how NuLagoon Tube works!

The exchange spread is set at 0.4%. The transaction fee rate is 0.2%.

http://nulagoon.com/#FAQ

Could you briefly explain why NuLagoon would want to skip those for FLOT? Do you mean entirely?

When NuLagoon Tube becomes stable we’ll be providing liquidity as a service. It’s supposed to be mutually beneficial; I don’t see why we are supposed to pay the general consumer price.

It’s probably not too wrong to pay NuLagoon that 0.6% as we’re already paying a lot for the liquidity itself, but it’s a matter of principle to avoid any further costs. I also do not want Nu to keep getting the short end of the stick.

3 Likes

Got it, thanks! That makes sense.

Unless there is any urgency in trying this out, I’ll be awaiting a response from NuLagoon (@henry). :whale:

Sorry for interrupting the NuLagoon Tube (NLT!) discussion with this.
The flash crash of BTCUSD seems to have increased the demand for NBT - I’d have expected the opposite:

…at least if my tired eyes don’t misinterpret the outputs of ALix and the broadcast liquidity information.

Can a FLOT member (or anybody else) please create a Cointoolkit tx to the Poloniex NBT entry gateway deposit address?
Doing that on my mobile phone is less than inconvenient.
Pinging @Dhume, @ttutdxh, @jooize, @woodstockmerkle

How much should we send?

Looking at ALix the liquidity on Poloniex went down to approximately 6,000 NBT (current; 4h average is slightly higher).
I have nothing but my gut feeling to say maybe 5,000 NBT?

Here’s 10k NBT. Signed 1 of 3-of-5

Verify

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

Please verify the destination address as being the gateway.

I had 10k NBT in mind as well.

Verified and signed by woodstockmerkle + jooize.

01000000fbe89556039d10e9343dcd4137694e6a479b1caf61711d6aa2d0104f595f952a4b0304496d01000000fd41010048304502210098eb444e46c2743304e0a3e8e084b7f3e04ef61b9a4596f7cba0fbb511e904a7022014d9e3471e6bea92d9aafe7b0fd3053476ea44a63a8c42a5346d32532488fd790147304402202fcf7491d78fc0fda5bf7695c416722fb52676958e7b3352e7ca90ce3390073a022040f56b1aa23b48c9c48f2e39275e645ae58dcd95898daa64ab8b3af607d2cad6014cad5321034b0bd0f653d4ac0a2e9e81eb1863bb8e5743f6cb1ea40d845b939c225a1a80ff2102a144af74d018501f03d76ead130433335f969772792ec39ce389c8a2341552592103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc210234139729dd413c84a71a0bfd6f236790be861b37311cef3240277c940e4b0c072102547427fc2ea3a0ab9ef70f5e1640ff5112b113f65696948f992bd0770b94257155aeffffffffda40f1a03deadf3f9744d730b2689dba3258b2b8d88b42d79091ec731ff0544500000000fd410100483045022100bc9c3dcad4c26ed8ad0c0d96d389437aec041dcff7b4af084602f7369e2ccfc702204f69e0d16f31d383415e057e602a375981f5e0af927dbca3fc0f803da3db698a0147304402203b40589de2a6d3593b97ff78e6d7d40d13b66d6f188c89610d7eb700fa4fe4f002207457bb3d8fb95a545756fa3851dcd64cbc99813efebab90e5a21a84eb873dda1014cad5321034b0bd0f653d4ac0a2e9e81eb1863bb8e5743f6cb1ea40d845b939c225a1a80ff2102a144af74d018501f03d76ead130433335f969772792ec39ce389c8a2341552592103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc210234139729dd413c84a71a0bfd6f236790be861b37311cef3240277c940e4b0c072102547427fc2ea3a0ab9ef70f5e1640ff5112b113f65696948f992bd0770b94257155aeffffffffefe637480865bb515805a486c6c3f1c4358bead08cacdabc88d5e3428266f49b01000000fd410100483045022100ea3d9f395d2ee3e07f4ce104931b29c92503a7fb75196852688bcbb615084fcd02206c713d6b33a8604db498a4b0ea5814591c756628335f7f180013f7cac5085d6401473044022005651c024ea86a6101dd863397b03ae2835e549ded3d2ed62ccaa3df6e1626120220514c931664cb720af7ae8f30d39a7bfd9bbc148ebea0fd38664ed68a2895d0d5014cad5321034b0bd0f653d4ac0a2e9e81eb1863bb8e5743f6cb1ea40d845b939c225a1a80ff2102a144af74d018501f03d76ead130433335f969772792ec39ce389c8a2341552592103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1800057220f4572b6eecab95bb0670e8676a9e34451dc210234139729dd413c84a71a0bfd6f236790be861b37311cef3240277c940e4b0c072102547427fc2ea3a0ab9ef70f5e1640ff5112b113f65696948f992bd0770b94257155aeffffffff0200e1f505000000001976a914c2b412403ce1ed0576eb2318b3ce027bb5a06b0a88acecae5f000000000017a914f35b24f264597d66ba8c366a5005824bb6a06138870000000042

One other thing to check:
is it me not being able to think straight or is the “bid” and “ask” of ALix and the broadcast liquidity information the opposite way?

ALix: bid (BTC), ask (for BTC)
broadcast liquidity information: bid (NBT), ask (for NBT)

edit:
verified and signed.

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

I had trouble broadcasting it, though.
Clicking on “broadcast” seemed to do nothing.

Trying it manually again produced “Transaction broadcasting is currently not available for NuBits”.
What now? Broadcasting it with Nu wallet?

1 Like

Broadcast through Nu.app.

sendrawtransaction 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
294d0029d2d215a4d5fbf7709181b7da6024afec177106a8c0779fc00e84be38

NuExplorer sees it.

1 Like

Impressive - half an hour for forming consensus and executing a transaction.
What about renaming FLOT to:
Fastest
Liquidity
Operations
Team
?
I will restart NuBot in case the BTCUSD price doesn’t move enough to make NuBot shift the walls (and use the deposited funds) and the liquidity on Poloniex runs low.

And regarding NuLagoon Tube:
a test run with 100 NBT seems to be fine for me. Before ramping up use of NLT, waiving (or lowering) fees etc. needs to be discussed.

How about

Feels
Like
Operating
Tier-3

3 Likes

Amazingly creative! :wink:

I’m almost scared by how fast that went.
NuBotput the 10,000 NBT on order (3,000 NBT at a time).
All but 1,000 NBT have already been traded for BTC:

nud getliquidityinfo B | grep BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv -A 2
        "BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv" : {
            "buy" : 19530.45,
            "sell" : 1000.0

The liquidity overall and on Poloniex is quite balanced at the moment.

I’ve prepared another deposit to the gateway.
Please verify and check, but only sign if the liquidity situation gets dire.
I might not be available on short notice for the next hours. That’s why I prepared it.
Created and signed by @masterOfDisaster.

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

edit:
all NBT on the gateway have been traded. No NBT funds on the gateway are left to support the peg in case the NBT sell side runs dry.
Current liquidity is according to ALix balanced, though.
We need to keep an eye on this.

2 Likes

Dear FLOT team members,

Sorry for the late response. As you probably know, we are busy to do some final polishing and tunning work to NuLagoon Tube.

@dysconnect has many valid points regarding the refund of fees and spreads. However, we would like to explain a little bit how we see it from our angle.

  1. As an exchange, NuLagoon Tube does not have the obligation to balance its buy-sell walls.
  2. As a LPC, NuLagoon Pools T3 have the obligation to balance NuLagoon Tube’s buy-sell walls.
  3. NuLagoon Pools T3 does not have the obligation to balance itself from T4.
  4. T4 Managers have the obligation to balance overall network liquidity, including T1 to T3.

So, balancing Tube could be treated as part of T4 managers’ jobs. It is reasonable that you pay some cost to fulfill your job.

We agree that FLOT could have the refund of half spreads. Because assuming NuLagoon Pools T3 buy some NBT from T4, we will accept the price at $1, however, we don’t think it is reasonable to ask T3 to buy NBT at a premium price, such as $1.002

Regarding transaction fee, because we invest a lot of resource to invent and run the service, it is reasonable to have some revenue by collecting tx fees.

NuLagoon Tube creatively provides a better way for FLOT operations but won’t increase its cost.

  1. Minimun time cost and risk. Fund could come back in minutes.
  2. Minimun exchange default risk. NuLagoon Tube is backed by NuLagoon Pools, which has part of asset stored offline. Moreover, the monthly custodian fee could be treated as a form of collateral as well.
  3. Minimun BTC volitilaty risk, the price is fixed at the moment TubeIn tx is seen.

Is that make sense? Could we agree on that NuLagoon Tube refund half of the spread rate to FLOT in one or two months basis.
Thank you

Henry

3 Likes

I think below are the key discussions and motions around NuLagoon.

Things I am pondering:
1- does NuLagoon Tube “as a pool” fall under the scope of the motions below? i.e.: is NuLagoon as an LPC operating on the NuLagoon Tube “exchange” considered a pool operation
2- if so, does the self-governance of balancing between the exchanges apply as a function that NuLagoon must perform?

This will require more thought and discussion, for sure.

Feb 2015

April 2015

April 2015

Sep 2015

Dec 2015

1 Like

Thank you for posting the references.
Without much thought I’m inclined to perceive NuLagoon Tube as extra service for which an extra fee is required (I don’t see the capping apply here) if Nu wants to make use of it.

There’s no need for Nu to use it.
But the FLOT might consider it useful, as it provides Nu with a means to move funds from T4 to T3 (and not to T1/T2 like with the gateways!).

I welcome the offer to have a reduced fee for that.

I typed a bunch of stuff a couple of hours ago but somehow the draft was gone. Now I’m typing a bunch more but it will be less organized.

Balancing NuLagoon Tube is not our job, but balancing NuLagoon is. Even if we don’t support NuLagoon Tube, we still need to balance NuLagoon. NuLagoon has refused a manual trade with FLOT on the grounds that a purchase can be made on NuLagoon Tube instead, which of course at that time would have costed 0.6%.

There are are times that NuLagoon Tube needs to buy liquidity from Nu, and there are times where Nu wants to help rebalancing NuLagoon. These tend to coincide a lot.

On one hand, if NuLagoon Tube can thrive and even become a market maker, anything we sell you will be resold for a profit, and Nu has no reason to sell cheap liquidity. On the other hand, if NuLagoon is unhealthy it poses a risk to Nu, but that job is already paid for by your management fee. If trading on NuLagoon Tube is to become an integral part of balancing NuLagoon, I have to point out that your business model is already subsidized by Nu.

For example, any BTC sitting on your exchange is supported by liquidity interests. That’s a few thousand NBT invested per month. This is unless you use BTC out of your own pocket, where you get hit by volatility, or invest a lot more and become a generic exchange that accepts traders’ funds. There’s no reason for Nu to pay to refill that BTC.

I also need to point out that NuLagoon Tube has probably diverted funds from Poloniex. It certainly causes some trouble for FLOT and some T3 people, but both FLOT and shareholders would accept that because it’s good for Nu in the long term. I hope all parties can keep proceeding with good will.

I might personally begrudgingly accept that remaining 0.2% until B&C Exchange rolls out; it probably costs lower than $100 a month for a few more months, not even out of my own pocket. On that regard it’s not worth our time to argue for. However, it is a very important precedent to our power balance with parties such as B&C Exchange in the future. Even if we can do it now, we must not do it forever.

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