**Draft** proposal to develop a NuBits Android wallet

[Sentinelrv]

@chronos Not sure about your comparison. Peercoin had huge successes as a commodity, not as a currency. The objective of NuBits is different as you know. We are looking for means of usage of this currency (see my objectives for the proposal). NuBits have almost zero speculative value.

Yes, that’s why this is so important to have something ready as soon as possible.

[Cybnate]

The issue I raised earlier in this thread around the access of the source code still keeps me from putting this proposal into execution.

The issue is that we don’t have the internal development resources as they are focussed on justifiable other priorities for a while. However I can’t have an external developer started as they don’t have access to the NuBits source code which will be required given the architecture of the Android client.

Not sure if this is the right thread but I would like to hear some views on the following options I can think of:

1. Put this proposal on hold and wait for internal dev resources to be freed up (>month? timeframe unknown)
2. Open source the NuBits code now.
3. Arrange NDAs with a small number of external but vetted developers with reputation for next 2-3 months to get things started but keeping the code closed to others.

I’m favouring option 3 as large capital won’t be able to clone NuBits now and invest into a clone competing directly with us. 2-3 months provides us with a better first mover advantage position assuming we can get some developments going and the marketing further strengthened which would make it harder for others to catch up.

Looking forward to your responses.

[Yurizhai]

It’s a tough call. The wallet would be a very nice development, but the threat of cloning the source code is too high this early in the game, IMO. I’d vote for 1, maybe 3 if the NDA could actually be expected to do much and the developers trustworthy.

[tomjoad]

I thought it would be useful to re-visit this proposal. In my mind this is the single most important thing we can be working on to begin greater adoption of NuBits. As far as I can tell none of our competitors have managed to create an easily usable mobile wallet yet.

Does the Nu dev team have the capacity to work with the app developer, assuming we don’t want an outsider gaining access to the source code? Having a working mobile NuBits app would open up a tremendous amount of new routes for pursuing business development opportunities. With the influx of NSR holders that will be coming on board (with public trading beginning soon on BTER) I think it’s important that these new shareholders have the tools required to start their own guerilla marketing and business development initiatives.

[masterOfDisaster]

I highly prefer option 1) (while trying to prioritize this task) and I second the assessment that this mobile wallet is crucial for adoption of NBT as payment option.

[woolly_sammoth]

I’m by no means an expert but I doubt that the whole of the source code of the Nu client would need to be opened even under an NDA.
I’ve had a good look at the differences between the various clones of the Schildbach wallet. The actual wallet code is mainly concerned with the display to the user so the changes between versions are just updates of text (Bitcoin > Litecoin etc.)
The bit of code that does the actual grunt work and interacts with the Bitcoin (or Altcoin) network is a library called bitcoinj (https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj). there’s quite a bit in there that is specific to bitcoin but clones do exist. (https://github.com/hank/litecoinj). It should be possible to have a look at the differences between those two libraries and transfer the changes to NuBits. Mostly those changes will be things like the version numbers (which give the NuBit and NuShare addresses the ‘B’ and ‘S’ at the start) but there will be some larger changes needed to switch between POW and POS.

I think my point is that although there is quite a lot of work to do to convert the android wallet to Nu, I don’t see how any of it would need a full view of all the source code of the Nu client.
Jordan said this in the Non-Disclosure agreement post
"Those who have access to the source code are encouraged to describe it using natural language (such as English) in any level of detail publicly as people ask questions. Small code snippets (less than 20 lines) may even be posted publicly to illustrate how specific aspects of the software work."
To my mind, that should be ample (than again, I may be wide of the mark. As I said, I’m not an expert)

[desrever]

porting bitcoinj to nubits is something that can be of great use for everyone, and honestly it won’t take much effort. As soon as my todolist looks more bright I can take a look

[masterOfDisaster]

It would be totally awesome if the efforts to port existing solutions to a NuBits mobile wallet were not that big at all.
Acceptance of NuBits as payment method is determined by easy, secure and comfortable payment tools.
And a mobile wallet is (in my opinion) the single most important one!
Is there anything that the community/shareholders/myself? can do to speed up working through your todolist?

I’m thinking of things like

• sponsoring activities that are on the todolist but can be outsourced (as no NDA relevant tasks are concerned)
• motion voting on priority of tasks
• motivating people with the required skills to prepare a porting of bitcoinj to “nuj” (preparations that don’t require Nu source code knowledge

[desrever]

Is there anything that the community/shareholders/myself?

foster the development of the bounty custodian by discussing its details in more depth so that I can prepare a draft an bring on board 3-4 extra multisig custodians.

This is exactly what bounties should be for, imho.

Discussion : A bounty-program manager custodian (?)

[Cybnate]

@woolly_sammoth Already had that discussion with the developer of the Peercoin Android client. Although it might technically be possible to query the developers instead of having access to the source code, it would likely add development time to the project. BTW we already have a POS backend for the Schildbach wallet. It just needs to be adjusted for NuBits.

I’ve already explored intermediary solutions as open sourcing part of the code or open source slightly crippled code (introducing bugs which would only harm the running of the network but not some specific development). NXT did something similar in the early days, to prevent script kiddies from just copying the code. They even put a bounty on finding them in an attempt to have the full code reviewed.

And I agree that the development of nubitsj (as in bitcoinj) would be nice, but I think almost impossible without having access to the source code.

Anyway, will check if we can have the Peercoin Android wallet developer joining this discussion.

[MatthewLM]

Hello.

I am the Developer.

I have already developed the Peercoin Android app. I can use the changes I’ve made for Peercoin to handle the Nubit’s blocks. This would be done by using a centralised server to provide valid block hashes.

The problem I have is knowing the format for Nubits data structures. How does Nubits distinguish between NuShares and Nubits? How are blocks formatted? Are there any other changes to data structures that I would need to know about. I’ll also need to know general information, such as URI format, the genesis block etc. Without the source code I will need to be given this information. I will also need all this information in advance before any contract can be made. If I could discuss with a Nubits developer I might be able to obtain the information I need.

Having the source code as a reference is the easiest way for me to work. I would also need either the source code or necessary information before the contract is formed as I must know what work is required if I’m going to give a fixed price.

I’ve worked on many cryptocurrency projects other than just the Peercoin Android app. You can see some of my five star reviews for some cryptocurrency projects here: https://www.freelancer.co.uk/u/mattmitchell92.html I have no reason to disclose the Nubits source code, I would not want to risk my reputation doing something like that, and I’m not a cheat. However if people would rather not trust me then I can indeed still work without the source if I receive all of the required information.

Regards,

Matthew

[teek]

For what it’s worth I think we should get on this immediately and work with MatthewLM on this. Nubits android wallet should a top priority. Keep it simple, it doesn’t have to deal with NSR at all, it doesn’t have to deal with minting or parking at all. Just transactions in NBT.

[masterOfDisaster]

[…]I think we should get on this immediately and work with MatthewLM on this.[…]
Just transactions in NBT.

+1

That sounds good:

I can indeed still work without the source if I receive all of the required information.

[desrever]

while I agree that this is a priority, I wouldn’t be too worried about not having an android wallet for a while. So we shouldn’t rush on important things like this, rather take the best possible path, we have the time to do so. I don’t see too much of hurry in people transferring nubits around with their phone if a) they can’t park them b) they can’t buy stuff with them c) early adopters are likely to have a wallet and NSR to play with.

If you think that I am wrong and we should be rushing this, please try to persuade me by showing some use cases of people desperate to transfer NBT using their smartphones.

[tomjoad]

If you think that I am wrong and we should be rushing this, please try to persuade me by showing some use cases of people desperate to transfer NBT using their smartphones.

I think this is a backwards way of looking at things. Disruptive innovation often introduces consumers to behaviours they never would have thought they needed.

A great example is the iPhone: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2007/04/ballmer-says-iphone-has-no-chance-to-gain-significant-market-share/

Prior to release, a lot of people ridiculed the idea of a smart phone. Then, when people began using it they realized that it was a powerful tool that enhanced their lives.

If we wait until there’s a rush of people looking to use mobile payment apps with NuBits, we’ll have already lost to a competitor. This is a project that will get people using NBT in a very real way that moves it from the domain of experimental fun to legitimate tool. One example use-case might be if we begin to make headway with partnering with remittance start-ups - an android wallet app would be a very valuable tool to show that we have at our disposal.

My two cents.

[Chronos]

If you think that I am wrong and we should be rushing this, please try to persuade me by showing some use cases of people desperate to transfer NBT using their smartphones.

The biggest use case that I can think of is a peer-to-peer in-person marketplace, such as Craigslist. The user would bring their mobile phone to make payment, not a laptop computer.

[teek]

It’s rather low hanging fruit… I think for the effort required it is well worth knocking this out, it is a major checklist item for anyone looking at this coin as a day to day transactional currency…

Android wallet users aren’t going to care much about parking or minting or NSR. They are going to care about buying stuff, shooting buddy 20 NBT back to cover his buddy putting dinner on his credit card, etc etc.

I for one, want NBT on android as quick as humanly possible. I also own a retail store…

If we wait until there’s a rush of people looking to use mobile payment apps with NuBits, we’ll have already lost to a competitor. This is a project that will get people using NBT in a very real way that moves it from the domain of experimental fun to legitimate tool. One example use-case might be if we begin to make headway with partnering with remittance start-ups - an android wallet app would be a very valuable tool to show that we have at our disposal.

My two cents.

I agree whole-heartedly with this comment.

We have a good base to work with with the Andreas Schildbach code. It was forked for Peercoin already, forking it again and getting it out there as soon as possible is very important.

There is nothing saying we can’t go a different way with a different approach / start a new android wallet from scratch later on. Right now this is the path of least resistance and considering i use the Andreas wallet all the time… I think its a good one to take…

teek

[masterOfDisaster]

Let me try to pursuade you with this:

• I don’t wanna leave this field to a competitor.
• I want to have an app for smartphones to show people what it is and to raise their interest in it and in NuBits in general.
• If I owe someone money (because I have forgotten my purse at home and decided to visit the factory canteen anyway) I want to be able to ask him/her whether I can pay my debts with NBT right away (I rarely forget my smartphone).
• I want to show my family, friends and colleagues how easy it can be to execute micropayments with smartphones (QR codes supported?).
• I want to have a reason and something to show when it comes to crypto currencies - especially because NBT is one of the rare examples of a real crypto currency (due to the stable peg)!
• I don’t want to wait until Apple/Paypal/Mastercard/randomCoin takes this market without having offered alternatives.

I agree 100% with this:

If we wait until there’s a rush of people looking to use mobile payment apps with NuBits, we’ll have already lost to a competitor. This is a project that will get people using NBT in a very real way that moves it from the domain of experimental fun to legitimate tool.

And I think SunnyKing is perfectly right with his/her/their assessment:

[…]in the past decade we are experiencing a migration of personal computing
to mobile devices, most notably, smart phones and tablets. […]

No time to wait for an NBT app!

Let’s start (to try) paying with NBT. Someone needs to start this
App! App! App!

I have already developed the Peercoin Android app. I can use the changes I’ve made for Peercoin to handle the Nubit’s blocks. This would be done by using a centralised server to provide valid block hashes.

For other use-cases I’d like to have something different, but especially for micropayments with a smartphone this is a welcome solution!

[Yurizhai]

So are there talks with Matthew going on by a Nu developer? Is this panning out?

[JordanLee]

I’m negotiating adding another developer to the NuBit repo (our reference client repository) now. If that is successful, I’ll ask the new developer to make providing Matthew what he needs to develop an Android client his first priority.

This is a high priority, though not the very highest for our existing dev and QA resources.