[Discussion] Contract to create web interface code that one can use to sell/buy Nubits with fiat online

desrever 2016-03-05 16:36:04 UTC #30

thanks @mhps to bump this up . I will add this in the backlog, unfortunately at the moment I won’t be unable to allocate resources to it. I forwarded this post to a friend who might be interested

CoinGame 2016-03-05 23:18:41 UTC #31

Personally I think the networks money is better spent throwing it at developing the NuBer LocalNuBits concept I wrote about.

Developing a gateway connected to payment processors puts the people in charge of that service in significant risk. Those processors could choose to shutdown the service, the service has to earn some money for the people running it (harsh truth… it won’t earn them anything. The demand for NuBits isn’t there yet). There’s probably other downsides.

Why does updating NuDroid to assist in becoming a LocalNuBits platform make more sense? Local NuBits traders can trade literally anything for NuBits. It doesn’t just have to be USD… It can be Euro, Yuan, Bitcoins, Ethereum, a car, cookies, cat food… anything. The platform would simply streamline the process of getting someone who wants NuBits in touch with someone willing to trade for them. Any web service connected to the platform wouldn’t actually be involved in any trading, and because of that it’s much less likely to be shut down. Any connected web service would be for metadata or statistics of the LocalNuBits platform. Trading would happen directly between buyers and sellers locally. It would put the legal obligations on the shoulders of the people making the actual trades as well. This would also encourage moving NuBits where we want them. Off exchanges and into peoples pockets where they will most likely use them. Like cash in their pocket instead of sitting on some exchange account (assuming they’ll meet somewhere in public and trade via mobile apps). Even if the mobile app gets banned the apk can still be distributed and installed.

I think there’s a lot more benefit in trying to encourage individuals to transfer NuBits among each other (even personally for goods and services).

mhps 2016-03-06 03:55:22 UTC #32

I think these two projects don’t overlap in scope much and from what you describe the LocalNuBits site and NuDroid upgrade would cost in the tune of $20k while the barebone site in the OP will cost more ten times less – the cost is not only in the money, but also project management difficulty. So we are talking about an apple and an orange.

I don’t understand why developing a gateway could put the service provider at risk. If you mean the service provider has risk with the regulators, we see that regulation risk varies greatly across the world. In the US where traditional financial sector provides fairly good service and rules with an iron fist through the government there is little survival space to e-currrencies and cryptocurrencies. But in the emerging economic countries people are not happy with services from the banking sector and the regulations toward alternative services are more friendly, e-currrencies and cryptocurrencies thrive. That is why the biggest and most number of processors and exchanges are from Eastern European countries, Hongkong and China. The site in the OP could significantly reduce the difficulty for aspiring small service providers to buy/sell nubits.

It’s not truth but your opinion, unless you can show supporting evidence. I find more than 30 PEGs sites trading cryptos with e-currencies. How come they don’t get sutdown and for all we know are making money?

Further more, why the service provider of such NBT-fiat site have to make money from selling currencies? Does any Nu liquidity provider make money that way? With such software Nu will be able to pay NBT-fiat service providers just like it does with pool operators, at greatly reduced rate because exchange default risk is reduced.

Anyway if someone can promise to manage the project you propose I will support it. I will still promote the creation of the simple web interface for nbt/fiat in the OP because I like simple focused tools that users can tinker with and use as a building block to do amazing things even the creator of the tool might not imagine – and it only costs 1.5k.

CoinGame 2016-03-06 12:16:46 UTC #33

I’m not comparing the services directly. We’re talking about what the market prefers. So maybe we are talking about apples and oranges, but we’re not doing it in the context of comparing them. We’re talking about whether or not the market prefers apples or oranges which is apt in this discussion. Also, i’m not sure where you come up with those figures but I’m fairly confident they’re conjecture at best. The difference between the two approaches is that we actually have a very talented developer and project manager for NuDroid who we can work with to define parameters for the project. That will also give us an accurate cost projection for shareholders. We have nobody to rely on in building the gateway service.

http://blockexplorer.nu/charts/numtrans

Check out transactions per day. Most of that is probably ALP payments. Our transaction volume on CoinMarketCap compared to on blockchain transactions tell the clear story of what is happening. For all we know it could be one person driving that volume. That is why I think encouraging people to get NuBits on their phone (which LocalNuBits trades would encourage) is better than some web service to purchase NuBits which has already existed and ultimately removed our asset. The suggestion of building a stand alone service for this purpose is neither novel or interesting.

https://bittylicious.com/ had NuBits available to buy through credit card for a while. I wasn’t expecting this but it looks like they took them down. Why? Probably because nobody bought them.

I think we’re confusing a bounty with costs here. Saying we’re willing to spend 1800 NBT is different than saying it will only cost us 1800. Considering nobody is jumping at the offer (at least openly) so i’m assuming it’s not a very attractive offer. Maybe it’s better to invest the time and resources in developing something more interesting. Make it very easy for anyone that wants to sell NBT to connect with people who want to buy it locally, and let them negotiate what pair they will tade with. Whether it’s NBT/FIAT, NBT/Car NBT/Baseball cards collection. The sellers will need to replenish their supply and they can get them off of the exchanges onto their phones. Which is what we want to encourage.

I think network money is better spend on trying something new, interesting, and innovative. Instead of trying to recreate existing solutions that evidence supports won’t be utilized. Though if someone decides to take up the bounty offer and build out the service then great. I’m just not sold it’s something people will be excited about or use. I think people going to crypto events showing off their NuDroid LocalNuBits wallet and trading on the spot is a much more compelling experience to promote.

masterOfDisaster 2016-03-06 13:57:24 UTC #34

I think there’s a place and maybe a need for both.
Each of recreating something old and creating something new has benefits.
I’d like to see both tools.

CoinGame 2016-03-06 14:25:32 UTC #35

Sorry for derailing the discussion but I was summoned to this thread and my thoughts on it obviously differ.

mhps 2016-03-07 02:39:58 UTC #36

I don’t agree that these two project compete much. The bounty, if approved, will be posted on e.g. bitcointalk to attract developers outside Nu community. Neither project posted a timeline to finish so there is currently no certainty they will happen at the same time.

That is OK. Go on with defining parameters. I might even chip in. Developing the web interface could be done before “defining parameters” finishes.

That is EXACTLY why I think we should break out this dead end catering-for-the-traders economy model of Nu by trying to make nubits available on e-currency exchange world where poeple get alt financial service to pay for goods and services.

Do you agree that the proposal you made is at least 10 times more complex and costly than the web interface nbt/fiat software?

I think a web interface that could be adapted to buy/sell/even get paid in nubits on anyone’s own personal page is new, interesting, and innovative. I see support from @masterOfDisaster, @dhume, @creon, @desrever, @cryptog, @crypto_coiner , @JordanLee, @nmei, @Nagalim

Further more, this is part of Nu infrastrucure. I wouldn’t disagree with improving liquid provision software just because it doesn’t seem new, interesting, and innovative.

I will update the OP on applications in other uses and Nu infrastructure.

mhps 2016-03-07 08:12:34 UTC #37

I have updated OP from title to explanation to requirements based on input I got.

bounty is changed to contract;
possible applications that might not be obvious;
dev and payment schedule
requirement refactoring

nmei 2016-03-07 14:09:46 UTC #38

I will just offer a link to where I brought up this topic - but I was discussing PayPal…

Not that there are hard feelings, but there was a lot of negative input in that thread. It boiled down to:

Paypal charges too much in conversion fees
As a money exchange you have to ensure you won’t become a money laundering site

I was ready, but I pulled back. I still think a direct exchange is a great idea. But I don’t know how we get around exchange fees and KYC/AML.

cryptog 2016-03-07 15:37:39 UTC #39

I would support such a project.

mhps 2016-03-08 05:24:00 UTC #40

This has to be left to the owners and users of the website. Some owners may already have licenses and want to offer Nubits as part of their existing business, some may be allowed, under local laws, to operate with no redtape if the daily amount is below certain level.

We just provide tools to facilitate Nubits adoption. That is all.

masterOfDisaster 2016-05-25 06:34:37 UTC #41

Just bumping it to prevent it from being buried too deep. It’s important after all…

mhps 2016-06-24 00:16:43 UTC #42

This proposal has gained a lot of support. The only thing preventing me from hashing it are the cost and that there is no manager. I don’t think I have teh time to be the manager although I can help.

@creon @woolly_sammoth @CoinGame @Ben @desrever do you have comment of an approriate cost? The current $1500 cost is for someone who already has done similar works…

What do people suggest to move forward about manager if no one steps forward?

Let the developerbe the manager and encourage frequent communication by giving performance-related fee?

Lower the requirement for the manager and I might accept to do it?

Any other ?

creon 2016-06-24 00:26:22 UTC #43

This would have been a great investment a year ago, but today I don’t see where those $1500 should come from.

Also I think the amount is not sufficient, and compared to previous expenses of Nu this would be only a fraction of what you paid for the alix platform while this here involves many security related efforts (digital money has to be stored safely at least temporarily).

But in the end I agree that the users of those services with the interest of integrating cryptocurrencies into their business should be the focus group, and these interfaces are important for that.

woolly_sammoth 2016-06-24 08:40:40 UTC #44

I have already started work on a site which can buy/sell NBT (or other coins) using OKPay, Perfect Money and Payza. It is basic at the moment as it is more of a proof of concept and is looking at the amount of work needed to get something up and working. I’m happy to say that it is very little effort to set up the selling of NBT through such a site. Buying NBT needs API integration with the services and requires a touch more work but nothing that scary or difficult. Styling the site to look decent is another block of work but I prefer to get the functionality and workflows sorted before doing anything towards that.
I have done this work as part of the Burn API service that has been discussed elsewhere. I think the two functions sit nicely together, providing a way to purchase tokens that can then be used for verification else where.
After proving the e-money gateway idea to myself, I moved on to developing a back-end api which can generate BIP32 HD NBT wallets with split private keys (full private key is never loaded into a wallet or stored on disk. he two halves are stored on different servers), parse the block chain, notify of transactions and generate signed transactions. This back-end has taken the bulk of the time since I started work on this a couple of weeks ago.
I expect the back-end to be finished to an acceptable level in the next day or so. I then want to work on a minimal burn api to test the concept. Once that is finished I will complete the e-money -> NBT gateway and put the site(s) live for testing.
under the current climate, I think the bounty is better spent elsewhere (or not created in the first place). I have some ideas from how to drive enough profit from the services to pay for the hosting without impacting on end users so will attempt to use that to fund the services.

I would have started this work much sooner that now but my free time in the last 9/10/11? months has been taken up with supporting/developing ALP software and the associated work around supporting the pools; a role which I wouldn’t have chosen for myself but needed to step up to at the time.

CoinGame 2016-06-24 08:43:08 UTC #45

@woolly_sammoth has already laid down the ground work for such an application which is open source. It’s a two app Django project. One app is to allow users to purchase NuBits with fiat using several gateways. The second app is a proof-of-burn API.

If anyone has any experience with Django or Python i’m sure your pull requests would be appreciated. There’s a gitter chatroom to coordinate as well.

masterOfDisaster 2016-06-24 10:06:59 UTC #46

There are still over 25 BTC on 3HikFkS2Zinab1TJq7dqp6wSPyLu7i7bhe.
This is the result from my efforts convincing FLOT not to send funds to NuLagoon and to the gateways instead, that were back then operating at an increased buy side offset - and I bet it’s one of the reasons to attract @JordanLee’s hate.

I withdrew 20 BTC from that gateway:

There’s a bit more BTC left in that gateway account, currently on the order book at a rate of approximately $0.10. If the order gets filled, the debts are reduced in a bargain buy.

If you need funding, ask for BTC.
There are BTC left - thanks to FLOT and me.

woolly_sammoth 2016-06-24 10:09:07 UTC #47

I think a good use of some of those BTC will be to fund the off ramp and allow the gateway to buy NBT for whatever the going rate is. Need to get the thing operational first

mhps 2016-06-24 10:32:20 UTC #48

That is great. Thank you. Do you plan to follow the requirements in OP?
I should have kept pushing this forward a year ago. Distributed fiat gateways can serve as a reserve free from risk of btc volatility.

woolly_sammoth 2016-06-24 10:36:53 UTC #49

The requirements on the OP describe the workflow pretty much spot on. It’s the flow that fits with thhe tools provided by the Payment Processors that I’ve dealt with so far. As @CoinGame said, this is being developed as a Django App which will mean that other Django websites can just drop it in and gain the functionality on that site too.
I hope to have something viewable fairly soon. Just need to get the ground work sorted so that it is is 1) secure and 2) scalable