Current Liquidity

[desrever]

What follow is probably off topic, please contact me in private if you think we go too much deep into details.

also with orders that are completely filled.

Wait, lets go through it.

The expected behaviour that I was able to test multiple times is this :

If the size of T1 wall is detected to be <10% of the full size of the wall (explicitly declared in config) for more than 4 minutes consecutevly, then the orders are reset

Are you saying that sell walls are not replenished ? not even after 5 minutes of being depleted?

[masterOfDisaster]

Are you saying that sell walls are not replenished ?

The NuBot used here was configured for buy side only (by configuring sell side to “bookSellwall”: 0.0,). And that worked just fine.
The buy orders must have been replenished. All 25 BTC were traded for NBT without manual interaction (except for restarting NuBot to have the funds put into orders immediately).
Only I don’t know whether the threshold of 10% triggered that or a moving price.
At first sight the trade history on Poloniex doesn’t tell that either.
If you want, you can have the log of NuBot.

From my view everything went fine with the buy side gateway. But you have a PM regarding NuBot in general

edit: according to the most recent trades on Poloniex it’s a new day:

but my withdrawal limit hasn’t been reset. Maybe it takes 24 hours and not another day to reset it. Will keep an eye on it to send the rest (3,200.26 NBT) to BqyRzFtWXDmjxrYpyJD42MLE5xc8FrB4js.

edit2: the daily limit on Poloniex indeed has a 24 hour reset and is not based on calendar days.
3,200.26 NBT have been withdrawn to BqyRzFtWXDmjxrYpyJD42MLE5xc8FrB4js.
With this withdrawal all NBT that were traded from BTC by my buy side gateway have been sent to FLOT.
This turn is complete with this transaction.

[dysconnect]

The fiat pairs are still nearly untouched…

[dysconnect]

@assistant liquidity

{
“total” : {
“buy” : 61800.7513,
“sell” : 58050.2946
}

[cryptog]

Tier1

Poloniex BTC/NBT sell 16028.8223 buy 18169.0998

[dysconnect]

The Tier 1 sell-side liquidity is critically low.

@henry, could you promote 20000 NBT to Tier 1, and buy 20000 NBT from FLOT, at a rate of 1.00? Thanks.

As of the time of writing:

• only 3500 NBT on sell side of Poloniex

• getliquidityinfo reports about 19k more funds in buy side than sell side for tier 2 and 3

• ALix walls report about 20k more funds in buy side than sell side for tier 1

[mhps]

Can @masterOfDisaster’s NBT exit be used? For once to show it works if @masterOfDisaster doesn’t want - understandablly - this to be a daily job ?

[henry]

@henry, could you promote 20000 NBT to Tier 1, and buy 20000 NBT from FLOT

The buy side is greater than the sell side in both NuLagoon and the overall network. We can buy 10,000 NBT from @JordanLee or @FLOT now. Please contact us. Thank you.

[dysconnect]

I propose to sell 10000 NBT to NuLagoon, at about 0.00234834 BTC each, which is the lowest ask on Poloniex at this moment.

The effective offset is less than 0.2% above 1USD, or about 0.25% above the highest bid (0.00234243). If @henry will deposit 23.4834 BTC to the FLOT BTC address 3QDWJ2yqJ5iTUg6cSpAwxx95ba3NG97hzG, a member of FLOT NBT group will propose a transaction to an address of @henry’s choosing, which may be published or privately told to FLOT.

FLOT BTC buy side shall refund NuLagoon if the transaction cannot gather the consensus of FLOT.

The justification of this transaction:

• Tier 2 and 3 have about 20k more in sell side than buy side (getliquidityinfo)

  “2” : {
  “buy” : 12278.53,
  “sell” : 2928.8772
  },
  “3” : {
  “buy” : 37502.8638,
  “sell” : 26510.0

• Tier 1 has about 7.5k more in sell side (ALix walls 15min avg: 28511.5306 vs 36186.8251)
• The actual sell side liquidity as given above is about 41% of total liquidity, and was much lower not long ago

By the way, shall we assume that tier 3 in getliquidityinfo is always up-to-date?

[dysconnect]

The walls changed way too quickly this time.

[masterOfDisaster]

Can @masterOfDisaster’s NBT exit be used? For once to show it works if @masterOfDisaster doesn’t want - understandablly - this to be a daily job ?

This can be a case for which the NBT entry gateway was made for - if NBT need to be put on T1 at Poloniex and arranging a trade might take too long.
The deposit address is known to FLOT and @JordanLee.

I verified that it is running (by connecting to the session).
Anybody could verify it by looking at the broadcast liquidity information:

nud getliquiditydetails B | grep BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv -A 40
    "BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv" : {
        "1:NBTBTC:poloniex:0.3.2a_1449093980642_dd6880" : {
            "buy" : 0.0,
            "sell" : 0.0
        },
        "1:NBTBTC:poloniex:0.3.2a_1449696980204_33797a" : {
            "buy" : 0.0,
            "sell" : 0.0
        },
        "2:NBTBTC:poloniex:0.3.2a_1449093980642_dd6880" : {
            "buy" : 0.0,
            "sell" : 0.0
        },
        "2:NBTBTC:poloniex:0.3.2a_1449696980204_33797a" : {
            "buy" : 2.21,
            "sell" : 0.0
        }
    },
[...]

At the moment the liquidity situation at Poloniex looks fine. Was it corrected by @henry and @JordanLee in the background or did the market correct itself?

The walls changed way too quickly this time.

That’s why trying to balance from T4 will never work well.

[dysconnect]

That’s why trying to balance from T4 will never work well.

I didn’t call for direct intervention by T4. For a good part of an hour Tier 1 sell side was basically 0. So I asked NuLagoon to balance it with Tier 3, and then FLOT to balance NuLagoon. By the time I’ve typed up all the above and sorted out some details, it went up to a more normal range. Now Tier 1 is pretty much balanced, though NuLagoon is not.

There was no other good way to swiftly deal with that situation apart from a responsive Tier 3, which is not available right now, whether it’s your gateway or NuLagoon. Luckily that situation didn’t end up threatening the peg, just wasted my time.

[masterOfDisaster]

I didn’t call for direct intervention by T4.

I’m aware of that. It was just another good example for the importance of a working multi tier model with working flows between the tiers.

For a good part of an hour Tier 1 sell side was basically 0

This will even with fixed cost compensation be the case. But the incentive to monitor occasions like that to earn a lot of compensation with only little invested funds will help mitigating this problem.

So I asked NuLagoon to balance it with Tier 3, and then FLOT to balance NuLagoon.

Right.

[quote=“dysconnect, post:843, topic:1239”]
By the time I’ve typed up all the above and sorted out some details, it went up to a more normal range.
[…]
Luckily that situation didn’t end up threatening the peg, just wasted my time.[/quote]

Which is bad enough that you wasted your time.

Now Tier 1 is pretty much balanced, though NuLagoon is not.

Balancing NuLagoon’s T3 (and other T3s that may come) on a weekly basis could be one of the tasks for FLOT (together with the transfer for the NSR buyback) - one for what FLOT in my opinion was created for.

[zoro]

If 3 FLOT members are always available, it could be a matter of minutes to send funds (as a T3 custodian) to MoD’s gateways eliminating the need of negotiations. The time will be consumed to make the agreement between the 3 FLOT members (via a chat channel i guess) and signing the transaction.

[huafei]

show the online time of all FLOT members or timezone he/she can signed

[masterOfDisaster]

If 3 FLOT members are always available, it could be a matter of minutes to send funds

This is only true for sell side. Buy side multisig requires 5 signers.
But more importantly: that’s not what the FLOT should be (ab)used for. The terms of the FLOT members state a reaction time of 36 hours or longer.
The FLOT is not here to defend the balance on T1!

send funds (as a T3 custodian) to MoD’s gateways eliminating the need of negotiations.

I’d not recommend doing that (sending funds to one of my gateways) to any layer except for T4.
The reason is that using a gateway doesn’t have a fixed rate at which the deposited funds get traded.
NuBot might sell them over time. Whoever sends funds to the gateway will get sent back what’s in the account- - no more no less.
Plus I’d not be able to tell funds apart if more than just one party would deposit funds at different times.
The gateways only work (accounting wise, if different entities want to use them) if all funds that are deposited are withdrawn before another deposit happens.

These buy side / sell side gateways are strictly meant for injecting NBT or BTC directly to T1 on Poloniex in dire situations with significant danger for the peg that can’t wait for negotiations.
Other gateways on other (important) exchanges might follow. I don’t find gateways on other exchanges important enough to draft grants for them and set up NuBots, but this is only due to the fact that I don’t think I can be involved in more operational and design tasks without doing the job badly.
I can only encourage others to think about creating these gateways for other exchanges (or another set of gateways for Poloniex to spread the risk for the funds and to increase availability - my NuBots might crash, etc.)!

Nobody, but Nu (and hence T4) should be interested in using these gateways.

show the online time of all FLOT members or timezone he/she can signed

Hardly possible. I can only speak for myself, but I’m not always in advance aware of the time zone I’m in and what appointments I’m involved in. I bet that is not very different for other FLOT members.
And - like said before - this is no situation the community/NSR holders should strive for.
Flows between T1-3 need to be evolved and corrected where necessary.

In an ideal world FLOT would only deal with T3 balancing (and possibly upper layers). This is the world we need to create.

[mhps]

But the incentive to monitor occasions like that to earn a lot of compensation with only little invested funds will help mitigating this problem.

We need a bunch of robots looking at reward rates of all fixed cost pools and ready to move funds from whereever to the most profitable walls. They are made to make profits so they will be viable and distributed (attractive to many people)

[dysconnect]

A “true” tier 3 should be able to absorb the 36-48 hours of delay. Interests can be paid like for tier 1 if needed, and if there’s a good mechanism for it. Lack of a good tier 3 (before B&C materializes) is a network-wide issue, although no one is to be blamed. It may be something that needs to be carefully designed, before we can settle down on more tightly defined regulations for tier 4.

[Dhume]

@assistant liquidity

Hm… assistant still down I guess.

[dysconnect]

12:50:23

{
“total” : {
“buy” : 71518.3761,
“sell” : 48340.6071
},
“tier” : {
“1” : {
“buy” : 18265.2426,
“sell” : 11565.7568
},
“2” : {
“buy” : 16552.27,
“sell” : 2512.4862
},
“3” : {
“buy” : 36113.1825,
“sell” : 26510.0
}

I suggest we sell some NBT to NuLagoon at some point.