Current Liquidity

[masterOfDisaster]

@masterOfDisaster should send back the proceeds

That’s the only action fully compliant with the terms.
Yet the actions compliant with the terms aren’t always sufficient to support the peg.

Round after round putting pressure on FLOT for timely depositing funds to the gateways and me withdrawing the proceeds to FLOT addresses is tiring - especially for FLOT.

So this clearly has a price, which is hard to calculate.
Another option would be to introduce a buffer in Poloniex, which has the vast majority of trading volume and the peg there is in my opinion more important than on minor exchanges.

Say you’d operate a dual side NuBot with 10,000 USD equivalent in total with Nu funds.
That would be another step back to the custodian model with that Nu started.
It would use much less funds and put much less funds at risk, though (compared to kTM and jmiller times).

The question is: what’s the price of that (risk * funds + fees) and does Nu want to afford it?
And: can Nu afford not having it until luiquidity issues have been sorted out?

You might realize that we are effectively close to operating that way, but with a lot of effort for FLOT in difference to just keeping funds on exchange as a buffer layer.

[zoro]

The risk is always there. And since there are no human LPs to take it, NU as a DAO should step in.
About the fees, it is up to you. What is your price to operate such a service? Like an ALP operator’s fee?

[Cybnate]

Why did nobody complain about the last violation?

Ok, will put you on notice Stop doing it! Sometimes violations are accepted or mildly punished for the greater good. I believe that is the case awaiting better solutions.

[masterOfDisaster]

The bandaid solution would be to turn one of the gateways into dual side mode.

As I don’t charge any fee for the gateways, I wouldn’t charge any fee for that either.
The rest of the gateway terms regarding availability etc. would remain unaffected as well.

This might help to create a (more sound) temporary solution until T3 custodians and fixed cost (hopefully) improved the liquidity situation.

Would that bandaid solution be one meeting thus description:

Sometimes violations are accepted or mildly punished for the greater good. I believe that is the case awaiting better solutions.

?

[Cybnate]

I think it would be good to raise a motion about the dual-side and test whether that is accepted as a bandaid pending T3 roles being fulfilled. I would support that with some restrictions regarding amounts (10k sounds reasonable)

When further emergencies occur you can at least be supported by Shareholders retrospectively. If it doesn’t pass then we might hope that T3 is already doing their job otherwise I’m at loss.

[masterOfDisaster]

I think it would be good to raise a motion about the dual-side

I think it’s not only good, but necessary to have such a motion.
I’m going to draft one if nobody beats me to it.
I must say that I really don’t like the way this proceeds.

Misplaced incentives seem to be in place.
The gateways have been convenient for Nu and so will the dual side NuBot be.
I think I need to include a fee in that dual side Poloniex motion to provide an incentive to Nu to not rest on its (or rather other’s) laurels.

I’m aware that this might reduce the attractiveness of the motion, which could endanger its acceptance.
For that reason the fee will not kick in immediately, but only after no replacement for the dual side NuBot was found after time x.
That scheme was successful for supporting the creation if FLOT and the continuation of NSR buybacks.

How does that sound?

[cryptog]

The bandaid solution would be to turn one of the gateways into dual side mode.

To me it sounds good.

[Nagalim]

What’s the difference between holding the money on exchange versus off other than the risk? Why make this a T1 thing instead of a T3 or better yet a T1-3 thing? The only argument I can see to doing this T1 instead of T3 is that we don’t have enough sheer liquidity on T1, which I don’t think is the case. We just need better T3 to balance using off-exchange (much less risky) funds so FLOT doesn’t work so hard.

[masterOfDisaster]

I’m all for T3 solutions!
That’s why I called it bandaid solution; the solution (at least I hope it will be one) will be a bunch of T3 custodians.
We aren’t there and have had enough drama with walls in danger of running dry (or even temporarily running dry).
If you look at the reasoning of the dual side proposal, you’ll find an assessment that identifies the gateways as a part of the problem of sides running dry (by siphoning funds) as the drawback of supporting the other side.

[Nagalim]

So why don’t you keep both the nubot running with a small bit of funds, but also keep a T3 reserve so you can fill the MLP (cause it’s not a gateway anymore) yourself? Then FLOT can just refill your T3 reserves. This is an MLP T1-3 solution using shareholder funds, and totally acceptable (though has not been done before). This way, you can keep just a minimum of say 2,500 NBT and $2,500 BTC in the polo pool and will refill from T3 to $5,000 if either side drops below that 2.5k mark for >12 hours. Or something like that. Much better than dropping 10k on-exchange for an indefinite period of time. And this way you can totally justify your fee, as it will be some work for you. And you can call it MoDpuddle T1-3 or something.

[masterOfDisaster]

So why don’t you keep both the nubot running with a small bit of funds, but also keep a T3 reserve so you can fill the MLP (cause it’s not a gateway anymore) yourself?

Because it requires my availability to support the peg and I long for a more stable liquidity provision on Poloniex.

This way, you can keep just a minimum of say 2,500 NBT and $2,500 BTC in the polo pool and will refill from T3 to $5,000 if either side drops below that 2.5k mark for >12 hours. Much better than dropping 10k on-exchange for an indefinite period of time.

Agreed. That would be more than just a bandaid solution.
You might have noticed that I’ll be away for (at least) 2 weeks in February. I doubt the liquidity provision issues have been sorted out until then.
A transitory solution is required.

But I’ll think about your proposal and consider drafting a motion for it.
I think it would make liquidity provision even more agile in answering to changed demands, because it needs only one party to support a side.
That could be another piece in the puzzle.

[CoinGame]

Okay I’ll add it when I get a chance. I’m traveling at the moment.

[masterOfDisaster]

I wish we had more gateways like the ones on Poloniex or already fixed cost compensation for liquidity provision…

https://alix.coinerella.com/walls/?4h
shows that some exchanges have dried up walls.

Luckily there’s close to no volume there, so the peg according to
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nubits/#markets is intact.

[zoro]

We need the sell gateway in Polo. I am trying also to move some NBT from Tube to Polo.
the situation could reverse at any moment though!

[huafei]

@assistant liquidity

[assistant]

Hi @huafei

The current total liquidity in the Nu network is:

Bid: 69468.7661 NBT (52.06%)
Ask: 63963.531 NBT (47.94%)

It is broken down in the following manner:

Tier 1:
    Bid: 39635.4874 NBT
    Ask: 16299.4895 NBT

Tier 2:
    Bid: 4803.59 NBT
    Ask: 20885.0415 NBT

Tier 3:
    Bid: 25028.1887 NBT
    Ask: 26779.0 NBT

[masterOfDisaster]

I fired up the sell side gateway.
Deposit request will follow.
Situation is dire on Poloniex:

edit:
deposit prepared, FLOT pinged:

FLOT US-NBT Operations (sell side)

Deposit to Poloniex sell side gateway required. TX created and signed my masterOfDisaster. 010000008e06995602512b78849407bdbfc665c38bded629af3b1fa6395e15f68ccffc0a10cf5c1e7801000000f900483045022100e3352a5e96d5c8c269121896f4f7554ee0a78645c20d0b1151b8c81346a0a95c02206a9312ad6646e0b2c217bc9462559e1f438984331694a700708b71497f51b042014cad5321034b0bd0f653d4ac0a2e9e81eb1863bb8e5743f6cb1ea40d845b939c225a1a80ff2102a144af74d018501f03d76ead130433335f969772792ec39ce389c8a2341552592103661a4370dfcfbcea25d1…

edit2:
deposit not yet executed, Polo with no NBT:

Will (ab)use funds on buy side gateway.

edit3:
Funds from buy side account put on order:

15:10:36.801 [Strategy Secondary Task] INFO  - initOrders SELL [com.nubits.nubot.strategy.Secondary.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:177]
15:10:37.752 [Strategy Secondary Task] INFO  - The current balance equivalent 2042.40429048 NBT is not enought to place the full SELL wall defined in the liquidity model (3000.0).
Resizing the size of the order [com.nubits.nubot.trading.LiquidityDistribution.LiquidityDistributionModel:152]
15:10:37.764 [Strategy Secondary Task] INFO  - The current balance equivalent 2042.40429048 NBT is not enought to place the full SELL wall defined in the liquidity model (3000.0).
Resizing the size of the order [com.nubits.nubot.trading.LiquidityDistribution.LiquidityDistributionModel:152]
15:10:37.771 [Strategy Secondary Task] INFO  - SELL- OrderBook : ----- SELL-side order book :
1.006,0.00256456,2042.40429048
SELL wall volume : 2042.40429048
SELL tier2 volume = 0.0 NBT
Total SELL volume = 2042.40429048 NBT
Best price :0.00256456 (1.0059999512$)

until deposit from FLOT on sell side gateway is credited and can be used.

edit4:
FLOT deposit was credited and has been put on order:

I will deactivate the (ab)used buy side gateway.
This will cause the sell side order size to drop to 3,000, but 7,000 are left to replenish orders.
I won’t be near my computer for several hours. I might be able to sign FLOT transactions, but can’t take a leading role.

[jooize]

Oops. Zero at Poloniex.

20k NBT to gateway?

Agree, verify and sign.

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

@Dhume, @ttutdxh, @woodstockmerkle, @masterOfDisaster

[woodstockmerkle]

Responded to on the NBT FLOT thread

[masterOfDisaster]

Gateway account ha sno NBT left:

nud getliquidityinfo B | grep BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv -A 2
        "BETwD8nSjtj9ADSvej2na34xmsMYwPRymv" : {
            "buy" : 14859.61,
            "sell" : 0.0

Will sign the tx.

edit:
the tx had only 0.01 NBT fees, although it was above 1 kB. I created a new tx (as the tx doesn’t show up on the blockexplorer; it seems to be rejected by the network):

FLOT US-NBT Operations (sell side)

The tx size is above 1 kB. Shouldn’t that require 0.02 NBT fee? I can’t find the tx id on blockexplorer… It’s there: http://blockexplorer.nu/transactions/5a2ef01f6a6d3585953822a5c16a11163a7b3d90026ac04174b8b835a8da4bac Redacted some content that would lead to confusion. update: the funds on the (ab)used buy side gateway are gone. We need a deposit to the sell side gateway soon… update2: Just in case it might be required (if the buy side should run dry) I started the buy side gateway in no…

edit2:
the buy side on Poloniex starts to run dry.
I’ll try to fix that while I’m on the road.
Will talk about it later.

edit3:
status on Poloniex:

• peg ok
• according to CMC a 24h trading volume of over $100,000