[Withdrawn] T4 Dividends

[masterOfDisaster]

Nope.
Buy side funds in excess of $120,000 will be used with ratio 1:2.
The overall ratio of PPC dividends in the first weeks is smaller, because there will be additional 10% of $40,000 used for NSR buybacks.

[Nagalim]

I see what you’re saying, good way to think about it. The percentage I was talking about was the same one JL was, which was is the ratio of the total dividends to the total buybacks.

[masterOfDisaster]

Right. That’s why I like the numbers you recently put into this motion so much:
Even if the tier 4 buy side funds exceed the limit at which dividends kick in, the ratio between dividends and buyback funds is reasonable.

And dividends will be - once the tier 4 funds are down to $80,000 - less frequent than buybacks.
This claim is based on the assumption that I expect rather tens of thousands of USD value in NBT (and eventually CH-NBT, EU-NBT, X-NBT) be brought to market per month than hundreds of thousands of USD value; at the start of the new products might be different, though.

[Nagalim]

I think we can revisit the hard numbers in this and the buyback motion once we have the FLOT in place and we have more information.

@tomjoad any comments about execution, as the share buybacker? I realize you may not be supporting this, but should it pass it would be best if the distributor and the burner coordinate. Also, the distributor will need access to T4, or at least be given the appropriate weekly allotment.

[tomjoad]

Nope, @NSRBuyback would work with the distributor in whatever way the motion text specifies. If the network begins performing share buybacks and dividends simultaneously it will make sense to schedule the activities, with dividends first and buybacks afterwards.

[Nagalim]

This is now up for voting.

[Cybnate]

Tier 4 Fund Management Discussion

I’m also supporting share buybacks over dividends. Dividends will cause value to leak out of Nu. I believe that the Nu DAO needs the funds they have to invest in development, operations and marketing. When there is a sustainable source of income a percentage can be paid as dividends. I this stage I don’t see adequate evidence for that.

I think the share buybacks have their role now and are storing value in NSR we might need to extract later when funds are needed for development, operations or marketing. Dividend distribution does have the theoretical effect of creating demand as mentioned in this thread, but will also leak funds out of Nu. My bet is that less than 50% will be invested back in NuShares.

Therefore not supporting this motion.

[Nagalim]

I will not argue about the effects dividends might have on price when compared with buybacks, as I think you’re mostly right there. The way I am looking at this motion is that it is a method by which we can further reduce counter party risk without completely unhinging the NSR price. In fact, I think that the BKS dividend showed that a dividend is actually a very good way to plummet the price at a specific time, allowing us to perform timely buybacks to most efficiently absorb that market reaction. Instead of comparing dividends to buybacks, think about the synergy when we combine them in the proper manner.

This motion is not about dividends vrs buybacks. It is about the benefits of having dividends on top of buybacks.

[cryptog]

a0a57d12ec67ac6816532f8a0afffd9b7ce14329 verified and voted.

[cryptog]

@assistant motion vote a0a57d12ec67ac6816532f8a0afffd9b7ce14329

[assistant]

Hi @cryptog

Here are the details for the Motion Vote on a0a57d12ec67ac6816532f8a0afffd9b7ce14329:

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##a0a57d12ec67ac6816532f8a0afffd9b7ce14329
Blocks: 3221 (32.210000%)
Share Days: 913707163 (30.016345%)

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[luxiang7890]

Dividend is to reduce the value of NSR, repurchase is to enhance the interests of shareholders, to enhance the market value of NSR, but also to enhance the visibility of NSR, absolute support for the repurchase, at this stage does not support dividends.

[Nagalim]

I disagree that dividend reduces the value of nsr. It reduces our positive liability without directly contributing to an increased price, sure. However, there are beneficial consequences to shareholders having on-hand liquidity during a period where most shareholders have most of their liquidity locked up in shares to anticipate the buyback.

[cryptog]

New executor required by January 18, 2016

hat buybacks have approached $20,000 per week.

in New executor required by January 18, 2016

I hope we would start to distribute dividends soon.
Imagine that instead of having 20k of buy back we have 20k of dividends.
Assume that you have 1m NSR.
It would give you 100 NBT a month. Not bad.

[Nagalim]

It’s not instead, it’s in addition to. So we would have given ppc to everyone that held in addition to the buybacks to those that sell.

[Dhume]

I especially like an occasional dividend distribution as a means of a marketing tool.

[tomjoad]

One consideration is that as time progresses, dividends will become less and less efficient due to NSR abandonment. Any NSR that is abandoned or forgotten about will still automatically receive PPC dividends. This represents lost shareholder value. The key difference is that buybacks deliver 100% of the value to all active shareholders, but dividends deliver 100% of the value to all shares, regardless of activity.

Because there is no difference between buybacks and dividends in terms of value delivered to shareholders, we should prefer buybacks more and more as time progresses.

[Dhume]

Oh I didn’t realize this, is there no way to not distribute PPC to “NSR” addresses that do not claim them? For example in say an X week timeframe? Does this also mean there might be considerable unclaimed BKS from the BKS distribution? Do we have any data about this or is technically not possible?

[tomjoad]

Oh I didn’t realize this, is there no way to not distribute PPC to “NSR” addresses that do not claim them? For example in say an X week timeframe?

My understanding is that dividend distributors can only specify a snapshot time for distribution, which doesn’t allow filtering of NSR addresses by activity. And, once PPC are sent, they cannot be collected back by the dividend distributor.

Does this also mean there might be considerable unclaimed BKS from the BKS distribution? Do we have any data about this or is technically not possible?

It’s probably not very likely. NuShareholders all made significant investments to acquire NSR initially and I doubt there are many abandoned NSR right now, meaning most BKS will have been claimed.

[huafei]

the price up with buyback ，but we don’t want to sell some nsr as “dividends”