[Voting] NBT burn / NSR sale

[Ben]

I agree. Adding overhead to the effort without a verifiable ROI doesn’t make sense. The easier, the better, because it makes reporting the end results that much more transparent.

[Nagalim]

Daily means changes of $.0005, which is over 10%. I changed it to 12 hours.

[Nagalim]

Other changes? Is anyone insistent about using 24 hours instead of 12? Or changing the minimum or maximum of any days? Or creating a minimum for day 6?

[cryptog]

This NBT burn would be the first of its kind. So it is likely that the protocol will be modified.
Therefore, it is important not to risk too many NSRs.
The question is: is 5m NSRs too much?
Personally, I do not think so.

[Nagalim]

Voting on this motion has begun.

[creon]

Assistant bot should be back up, you can hash the motion now. What I just noticed is that you did not specify in which currencies the bids are allowed to be made. Do we allow NBT bids? PPC?

EDIT: Ah nevermind, you hashed it Not so important.

[Nagalim]

Do we allow NBT bids? PPC?

Yes

using market prices for valuation of non-USD or NBT currencies will be accepted

[creon]

Well we cannot expect Jordan to play the altcoin converter, but I think that it will be fine for the shareholders if he restricts the accepted coins later on. Thanks for writing the motion!

[Cybnate]

Should be NBT only. We want to have people buying NBT or releasing them from the sell side after all.
Or did I miss something?

[creon]

At least BTC must be accepted since also the market on Poloniex is BTC. Maybe BTC bids would even be better for us because Jordan will be able to use the funds strategically in order to improve liquidity.

[Gilbert]

I think you underestimate the importance of all the falling dollar. Nobody buys NBT, if he accepts that the Bitcoinprice will rise. If the dollar price as now fall by 7% (within 2 weeks), the Bitcoin in the purchasing power remains the same, then the Bitcoinpreis increases by 7%. Apart from the pumps and dumps.
If I buy now NBT and assume that the dollar continues to fall, perhaps again by 10% within one month, then I would do as Europeans also loss when I get 15% interest per year for parking of Nubits. Besides the fact that I can miss the upward trend of Bitcoins.
Therefore: Let to - in certain situations - an imbalance of sales and buyers to. An absolute balance is unnecessary and expensive.
It is normal that when the dollar falls, the purchasing demand of NBT also falls.
What the interest on NBT desperately trying is to support the dollar price. The interest would be as high as the dollar falls. This is not feasible.
For such cases, we need a second currency to strengthen the demand for NBT. For example nbteuro. Anyway.
My old Amateur proposal was to hold for this reason a mixture of currencies in the NBT.
I would always NBT sell when the dollar falls more than the interest rates for parking NBT are high.

[Nagalim]

@Gilbert while that is an interesting analysis, and very important, I’d like to avoid derailing this thread. The motion is for nbt burning such that we reduce the nbt supply and has little to do with the nbt/btc peg.

As far as using different currencies: I feel the nbt only auction is a different nbt burn style. I would love to see competing burn motions to give shareholders options. However, the point of this motion is to sell nsr to whoever will buy it for a somewhat reasonable price so we can convert it to nbt and burn it. I feel we should accept any payments, and I think you’ll find most of the payments will be in nbt or btc. If they’re in ppc, well that’s a little inconvenient, but it’s not the end of the world. We’ll just have to pay a couple fees to turn it into btc, then nbt.

Also, I think you’re right that the motion is written such that Jordan can refuse currencies that he doesn’t think a proper market exists for. I’d be ok with it if he said only btc and nbt bids allowed. I agree we should probably be more careful about this in future versions of this type of grant.

[mhps]

the Bitcoin in the purchasing power remains the same

I can’t believe my eyes. Since when this has been the case?

[JordanLee]

As stated before, it is not prudent to sell undistributed NSR on Poloniex.

I will, however, transfer NSR to any agent chosen by shareholders via motion.

I would like to see 1,000,000 NSR sold each week until the buy side liquidity equals or exceeds the sell side liquidity. It seems like auction would be the best mechanism to price it. Auctioning such a small amount will make a reserve price unnecessary. Each week the entire proceeds will be burned with the transaction published on this forum. Only NBT would be accepted.

Thoughts on this?

[Nagalim]

Thoughts on this?

I think you should propose a motion, as this motion has been hashed and you seem to have a clear idea of what you want.

[creon]

A blind auction is more prone to market manipulation and much less transparent to shareholders, as discussed in this thread.

[Chronos]

A blind auction is more prone to market manipulation

I agree that blind auctions severely lack transparency (hence the term “blind”). However, on the manipulation point, I see it the opposite way.

Scenario 1 (sell on Poloniex): market manipulator dumps large amount of NSR on market. Shareholders cannot obtain a good price for their NSR in the required timeframe.

Scenario 2 (blind auction): market manipulator dumps large amount of NSR on market. Bidders are aware of this, but are still at liberty to bid whatever they see fit.

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How do you see it?

[creon]

Look at the way the NSR are supposed to be sold. Its a price that decreases over time. Manipulating the price by dumping NSR will have no effect on the offered price.

In a blind auction, I can easily dump the price to my desired bid price, and implicitly surpress the required buy bid. The market is so inliquid that it is very profitable to surpress the NSR price by 20% and then to buy in the auction.

Its also sad that only NBT are planned to be accepted, because this will give NBT holders the opportunity to dump without touching the market. But its easier for Jordan, so I guess we have to live with that. I am just happy to get this finally done after waiting so long where we couldn’t do it due to the B&C auction.

[Chronos]

In a blind auction, I can easily dump the price to my desired bid price, and implicitly surpress the required buy bid. The market is so inliquid that it is very profitable to surpress the NSR price by 20% and then to buy in the auction.

Ah, I had overlooked that it would be put in a sell wall, rather than sold at market price. If the wall is reduced gradually enough, I think you could be right.

[Nagalim]

Nsr will only be dumped on buy orders in the event where Jordan can’t find a buyer for just 1 million nsr for over $.002/nsr after 5 days of trying. I had considered avoiding even that extreme event, but ultimately decided that if we’re really going down that far we should be the ones to drive it down so we can burn as much nbt as possible before nsr becomes completely illiquid.
Besides, it’s not that much nsr.
As far as it not being prudent to sell undistributed nsr on exchange, I disagree fundamentally. I think everyone should be able to burn nbt for new, undistributed nsr that they can then sell on exchange. We don’t have the mechanism for that yet, so Jordan and his reserve are our proxy by which we simulate that ideal.