The PeerAssets Protocol (on Peercoin) Will Replace Peershares & Potentially Nu as Well. Come Join Us

cryptog 2016-10-21 01:27:33 UTC #38

I am talking about the security of the mechanism to maintain the peg.
NuShares on top of PeerAssets would be owned by shareholders
If there is one individual like jordan lee owning most of these nushares, we d see the same issues as we see now with NuShares on top of PeerShares.

I am mistaken?

Sentinelrv 2016-10-21 02:30:18 UTC #39

As long as currency and shares are created through shareholder voting it could always be a possibility I think. Care would need to be taken to start out with a much better distribution than NuShares got.

I was thinking about it though and I think PeerAssets might actually allow for fairer voting. Right now with Nu we have a rolling window where people consistently mint blocks with votes in them. Larger NuShareholders can easily get their votes included, but smaller shareholders may struggle to mint a block, so their vote may not get included and they don’t get to vote for a motion. I believe PeerAssets would allow all stakeholders to vote immediately, so even tiny stakeholders could get their say in if they wanted to vote.

@Nagalim would know more about this than me though. What do you think?

Nagalim 2016-10-21 03:01:27 UTC #40

PeerAssets can be ported to other blockchains. It really does greatly reduce the cost of blockchain upkeep, rendering it down to just the upkeep txn fees. You know how many txns Nu does per week? Like 5. That’s a whole 0.05 PPC per week, as opposed to what hundreds of thousands of dollars in blockchain upkeep over the course of 2 years?

This can be done in other ways to distribute the debt mechanism and thereby decentralize the reserve, for example using pseudo-crypto (PeerAssets representing other crypto on other chains) with complex custom issuances. Anyway, we aren’t there yet, there is work to be done.

Sabreiib 2016-10-21 03:11:53 UTC #41

How? Does Peerasset have independent blockchain?

Nagalim 2016-10-21 03:16:05 UTC #42

you should really just read the whitepaper. It is mostly blockchain agnostic.
"This paper describes a simple, blockchain agnostic protocol which enables peers to issue and transact with assets."

Sabreiib 2016-10-21 03:54:29 UTC #43

It seems peerasset read/write messsges from/into PPC blockchain?

Sabreiib 2016-10-21 05:36:07 UTC #44

@Sentinelrv, how long will peerasset be finished? open source?

ConfusedObserver 2016-10-21 05:54:48 UTC #45

The question how many funds that belong to Nu are in the buy wall remains unanswered.
Is there any public information about that anyone could point me to?

Revenue!

@Sabreiib, I’ve spent some thoughts on creating “quite good money” based on PeerAssets.
I hope to have some time on the weekend to start working on a draft for a paper that might be called “The quite good money crypto ETF”.
I will need reviewers and supporters. From what I’ve read about you in this forum, I can only hope to have your support.
What do you say?

And die-hard Phoenix followers, please think twice before bashing me for that little advertisement here out of reflex; if successful it might Nu bring a store of value (for the reserves), that’s more USD stable than BTC
…Nu had the chance to create that product, but unfortunately had no interest.
Now I’m going to make it myself.

Sabreiib 2016-10-21 06:03:45 UTC #46

Looking forward to read your whitepaper.

Hyena 2016-10-21 07:25:05 UTC #47

PeerAssets kicks ass, erryone here should just join it and abandon nubits.

sigmike 2016-10-21 07:25:41 UTC #48

Peershares could also cost nothing to set up if some development was done in that direction. Software updates should be rare. Almost all the updates we made in Nu was to add features. Adding new features to PeerAssets would also need experts. If you don’t need new features you only need security updates and keeping compatibility with operating systems. These have been rare and the cost could be shared among all the Peershares instances. And PeerAssets can also need these kinds of update.

The real difference in cost is the cost to run the network. With Peershares you need dedicated nodes, and all shareholders should run a node (or have a provider if cold-minting is enabled). It’s not a big cost, but PeerAssets doesn’t have it.

Nagalim 2016-10-21 09:22:24 UTC #49

I’d say the real difference is about separating the distribution of shares from the distribution of network security. The biggest concern I have with Nu is not that the votes are centralized, but that the security is centralized. People that make good secrity-driven minters do not always intersect with those that make good business decisions. Separating them allows the public to maintain secure record of a business’ practices without relying on its own accounting. For example, once a shareholder gains 51% of Nu they could fork the blockchain to edit the history. Once the share base is compromised, the entire blockchain becomes untrustworthy. For PA, gathering up >51% of some asset gives you no say at all over the blockchain, and thereby no actual ability to edit the history of the asset.

Sentinelrv 2016-10-21 14:10:02 UTC #50

Both very good points.

I had not thought about this, so thanks for bringing it up. It is necessary to distribute Peershares as wide as possible in order to maintain security, however those specific people might not be the best ones to make important decisions on behalf of the business. Separating security providers from those who make important decisions through voting is a very important step.

Sentinelrv 2016-10-21 14:16:48 UTC #51

I have heard Peerchemist say he would like to have it finished around Christmas time, mind you this is only the protocol. We would still need to make it easy to use, which would require interface developments in PeerKeeper. And yes, it is open source.

Sentinelrv 2016-10-21 15:53:20 UTC #52

Something Peerchemist mentioned on peercoin.chat while reading your quote above is that shareholders mostly do not want to run a node and he believes PeerAssets will prove this by becoming more popular. I happen to agree with that as it can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes, especially when you have difficulties getting the client to work correctly or need to redownload the entire blockchain.

None of that hassle is required with PeerAssets and with the PeerKeeper thin client, you’ll be able to transact with your assets with ease on a desktop or mobile browser without needing to install anything. PeerKeeper will even allow minting Peercoins over mobile browser in the future.

Phoenix 2016-10-21 22:54:58 UTC #53

It is great to see the community once again validating and recognizing the value of @JordanLee’s vision. He had strongly recommended PeerAssets be implemented in November of 2014, while noting he didn’t have time to do it himself.

It is good to see the community getting back on the right track, following the recommendation of @JordanLee.

While PeerAssets are a great idea and have important use cases, they cannot be used to implement a stable currency and lack many important features of Peershares, which tend to be related to the fact that Peershares have their own blockchain, while PeerAssets do not. There are lots of use cases where a PeerAsset is more suitable than a Peershare. Generally speaking, PeerAssets would be easier to set up and maintain, but not as powerful and flexible as Peershares.

Nagalim 2016-10-22 02:14:44 UTC #54

Name one feature standing in the way of PA being used to make a clone of Nu.

Sentinelrv 2016-10-22 02:47:09 UTC #55

I would like to hear this as well.

ChrisS 2016-10-22 07:19:04 UTC #56

Lol

Gilbert 2016-10-22 09:57:54 UTC #57

If i look on this chart https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ppcusd i get no interest to understand Peercoin or Peerassets All is goin down since 2014