Supply, Reserves, and Equilibrium (superseded by automation)

[jooize]

The multisig group FLOT caused problems, not multisig in itself. There are risks with both approaches. A multisig group is upcoming.

I haven’t investigated the loss because the current block explorer displays negative values for some addresses.

[ConfusedObserver]

The multisig group FLOT caused problems, not multisig in itself. There are risks with both approaches. A multisig group is upcoming.

I know that the narrative goes like this, but can you please explain in what way the multisig group FLOT caused problems?
I learned that they were signing transactions just like they ought to and very often much faster than they were obliged to.
I learned that they were selling NSR when the reserves ran dry.
So please tell me, in what way did FLOT fail and how will you avoid that in the upcoming multisig group.

I haven’t investigated the loss because the current block explorer displays negative values for some addresses.

You need a block explorer to know how much money you have?

[MaVo]

^^

[MaVo]

Well, a block explorer helps indeed to find out how much money you have. If someone moves 100k NBT to an exchange faster than you move your NBT to an exchange, you know that your NBT is going to be worth less than it used to be

Given that you have a clue that a big transaction might be heading towards an exchange.

[DavidMc0]

Putting aside other issues & assuming a safe way to handle reserves, would you prefer to see NSR buybacks start as planned, or to increase reserves to a larger degree than planned due to possible threats?

It’d be good to hear your constructive thoughts as well as your abrasively communicated but somewhat valuable critique.

[jooize]

FLOT didn’t release funds to NuBit holders. Read from here. Part of the problem was devaluing of NuBits down to 10% of their value and ineffective use of tier 6.

I need the block explorer to show how many funds were moved to addresses we later blocked, and how much escaped those addresses. If you can tell me how to do it anyway, I’d be happy to hear because it should be a high priority. The block explorer can be somewhat unwieldy as well.

[MaVo]

Jesus, in no case would I want to see NSR buybacks any time soon. It is the biggest bullshit move that NU as a startup can make. The only way to earn trust is by having sufficient reserves in the hands of a sufficiently decentralized control group. It will take years from now to reach that scale that @jooize and @Phoenix dream of, if ever. And I doubt it will reach that scale unless NU really finds a way to earn some money.

If I want to buy a large amount of stable currency, do you really think I would consider putting my money into NBT, which currently is under the control of an anonymous scammer and an incapable wannabe Vice Chief? This is ridiculous. As soon as you put a good amount of money into NBT, they hold a gun to your head. @jooize has proven that he is corruptible, and he will remain corruptible in the future. He would do anything for a bonus.

Generally, any “additional” funds (which basically do not exist as every NBT is a liability and not revenue, but who cares…) should be spent on development, if anything. B&C has been trapped smartly by @Phoenix. As B&C is now a reasonable shareholder, and very likely many NSR holders are also BKS holders, why wouldn’t additional funds be spent on B&C development? @Phoenix is always talking about the “synergy” between the two ventures. Now I think that the only synergy he refers to is the potential for him to significantly exploit both companies by sophisticatedly tying them together, and he played that well once. Maybe it’s time to get both projects back on track by using funds for development. I know this keeps him from dumping into buyback money, but hey, @Phoenix, can’t you just be a good person from now on? Maybe the great lead architect should step forward and show his face. I like how he is saying that he is afraid of being prosecuted by authorities because he issues a stable cryptocurrency. You have a lot of good reasons to not show your face @Phoenix, but the one you mention is not among them.

[Phoenix]

I’m interested to hear @Phoenix’ view on that matter.

I honestly didn’t read your post because the only matter I am interested in discussing with you is the return of 13 BTC everyone agrees (even people who wish to destroy Nu agree) you stole from shareholders.

There is broad consensus you have committed felony theft against NuShare holders and that you are a Chinese authoritarian who is quite fond of hyperinflation, like the pathetic authoritarians that lead China in a century of humiliation. Your time is over. You and your kind lost. Deal with your defeat.

[MaVo]

Hey Chiefbird, prove that he stole it. Otherwise, he didn’t steal it. Nobody else on this forum builds his operations on that paradigm better than you do. Prove it, or apologize for wrongly accusing him of theft. Let me make the first step: I apologize I have ever put forward that @jooize and @Phoenix are scammers. In fact, I believe that they are the most sincere, honest, competent and social personalities out there in the crypto space!

[MaVo]

I’m interested to hear @Phoenix’ view on that matter.
Freezing buybacks would be a big shift from what was preached as the right thing to do before many NBT were recently sold.
Would changing the rules not impede gaining confidence in the system?
I mean, what can you rely on, if it’s today full speed ahead and next day fully throttled.
What’s the way out of this?

Oh and btw. a NAV calculation of the Nu exchange activites would be most interesting in current times.
NBT were sold to customers at BTC close to its all time high.
I bet those customers will sell the NBT back to Nu, after a significant BTC drop.
The question is: will BTC drop?
But in that case I can tell you the trend of the NAV if BTC drops while the NBT are still in circulation. I don’t require any trade data and need no crystal sphere for that.

In such times it’s just more obvious than in less volatile times, but I’m damn sure, the trend of NAV is always the same just with a different gradient.
That’s why a NV of the trading would be so important.
Without that NSR buyers buy a black box. It’s not transparent what happens at exchanges and exchanges are since the beginning of Nu the main business area. It’s completely opaque what happens there and the data that’s published is just trying to hide that.

@jooize, as you can see @Phoenix denies to provide some answers to these reasonable questions. Could you as Nu’s Vice Chief of Liquidity Operations please give some answers? I am thinking about becoming a shareholder, but I am now concerned because these questions seem to be very reasonable and I would like to see them answered before investing money into Nu.

[cryptog]

hat you are a Chinese authoritarian who is quite fond of hyperinflation, like the pathetic authoritarians that lead China in a century of humiliation. Your time is over. You and your kind lost. Deal with your defeat.

I don t think nationality should be subject to discussion.
He is probably from UK and you are probably from Canada but who cares?

[Nagalim]

This thread got real racist real fast.

[MaVo]

Time to sell some Chinese Nubits!

[ConfusedObserver]

I honestly didn’t read your post because the only matter I am interested in discussing with you is the return of 13 BTC everyone agrees (even people who wish to destroy Nu agree) you stole from shareholders.

It’s cheap how you hide behind that accusation of yours trying to evade discussions and questions.
I’ve recognized that you like to create narratives.
Please register that I have no 13 BTC no matter how hard people agree.

The only of the both of us who demonstrably lost shareholder funds is you. I’m not saying you stole it. But you did financial damage to Nu while I did not.
I’d state how big the damage was, but you refrained from telling publicly.
May I ask you how many NSR you lost?

There is broad consensus you have committed felony theft against NuShare holders and that you are a Chinese authoritarian who is quite fond of hyperinflation, like the pathetic authoritarians that lead China in a century of humiliation. Your time is over. You and your kind lost. Deal with your defeat.

The broad consensus only exists in your narrative. But you could create a motion and I’m damn sure you could show blockchain consensus for that complete farce, too.

If I were fond of hyperinflation, I’d simply love Nu.
Tell me, by what factor did the mismanagement that circled around the promoting and conducting NSR buybacks to create a dangerously low level of reserves inflate NSR supply?
My time is over? My time hasn’t even begun. My investments run well and I’m glad that I didn’t invest in Nu

Your time is over if you don’t get your economics 101 sorted out.
Without NAV of exchange trading and a full accounting, shareholders won’t even know when the time is over.
You will know it. You have the numbers. You just don’t publish them. Why don’t you publish them, if you are such a fan of transparency?
Please spare me the same old story of transparency on the blockchain.
The single most point of losing money for Nu is trading NBT/BTC at exchanges. You don’t find that on the blockchain. And if you don’t prove me wrong I continue repeating it. Because the logical conclusion of people trading NBT/BTC is that they make money with it. They buy NBT when BTC falls and sell NBT when BTC rises. That’s why I ask for the NAV. There you could see it.
Would they lose money, they’d stop. Simple as that. Looking at the charts they did almost stop, but for other reasons, like lost confidence. But once they were trading lots of money. Just to be at the wrong end of the stick? C’mon…

Once I had said “Change the course and I’ll become shareholder”.
Meanwhile I perceive that just as learning exercise for me and others.

[ConfusedObserver]

@Phoenix, any update regarding the amount NSR you held on behalf of Nu and which you lost?

[jooize]

people new to the forum should nonetheless have the chance to find out that @jooize has zero background in finance and absolutely no clue what he is doing and, also, that the people who do bring some finance knowledge to the table are supposed to be banned from this forum.

Indeed, I have zero background in finance. Yet, I can provide value in and outside liquidity operations.

Recovering the peg required understanding of the liquidity model and markets. A Chief of Liquidity Operations was appointed to carry out that mission. Executing the tasks does not require the same expertise.

and, also, that the people who do bring some finance knowledge to the table are supposed to be banned from this forum.

Because @ConfusedObserver had for a long time been posting spiteful remarks and instead of methodically building basis for his accusations and suggested flaws he kept spreading them in barely relevant discussions.

You’ve provided almost no value and even anti-value the entire year of 2017.

Anyone interested I suggest read the topic where I argue the problem down to the bottom.

[MaVo]

You’ve provided almost no value and even anti-value the entire year of 2017.

I haven’t provided value to you personally, that is true. And the “anti-value” you are talking about is the “pro-value” for anyone not being @jooize or @Phoenix or anyone hoping to find people buying their NSR at a too high price. You won’t stop me. And I promised you that the delisting of NSR from Poloniex was a done deal. Change your attitude, little kid.

[jooize]

We’re in agreement regarding spread trading, though you consider volatility of the asset (BTC) directly related and I view it as a separate factor. End result is the same.

10,000 US-NBT purchased and returned net $100 from spread for Nu. Say Bitcoin is at 1,200 USD at the time the NuBits enter circulation and 1,150 USD at the time they leave circulation via a BTC/USNBT value transfer pair.

10,000 / 1,200 = 8.3333
10,000 / 1,150 = 8.6957
8.3333 * 1,150 = 9,583
10,000 - 9,583 = 417
417 - 100 = 317

A customer buys 10,000 US-NBT for 8.3 BTC. Bitcoin falls 50 USD, then they return their 10,000 US-NBT and receive 8.7 BTC. That’s a net loss for Nu of 317 USD.

NuBits’ main purpose is to move that volatility exposure from customers to shareholders. Zero reserve would theoretically eliminate reserve assets and their volatility as a factor, though in practice there may be a lag between the backing pair and value transfer pair (such as NSR/BTC and BTC/NBT). Zero reserve requires a mature NSR market with investors who know what they’re doing. Investors did it by proxy last year when they recovered the abandoned US-NBT peg. The money was provided. We want to automate that procedure with minimal friction.

For rational increase in value of NSR, the loss described from customers successfully hedging in NBT must be covered by equal failure to hedge, other income, or be resolved with zero reserve. The asset may also stabilize, but that seems unlikely.

Until then, using a reserve asset is the only way we know to do this. Using USD as reserve asset carries other risks not being decentralized.

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Decentralized liquidity providers withdrawing funds in times of high volatility causes problems, but how critical? If Bitcoin stabilizes again, would decentralized liquidity providers return? That’s an interesting topic I suggest breaking out of this thread and continue.

[jooize]

What?

[MaVo]

The answer to that question will follow soon.