[Passed] NuPond Term 5 Fixed Cost Motion

[nmei]

Looking forward to participating and seeing how it goes.

[huafei]

more liquidity, less pay per mini
less liquidity, more pay per mini

am i right?

[masterOfDisaster]

You are almost right.

The compensation per minute will be:
7.5NBT/day / 1440 min/day = 0.0052083 NBT/min

The pool pays out this amount of NBT per minute - but to all liquidity providers (if there’s at least one, I think)!

If there’s only one liquidity provider (LP) with 1 NBT on buy and sell side, this LP will earn 7.5 NBT/day for each side.
If there are more LPs they share the 7.5NBT/day in relation to the amount of funds they use for providing liquidity.
I think that’s what you meant by saying

more liquidity, less pay per miniless liquidity, more pay per mini

It is a reasonable expectation that people will fill the buy and sell side to a level with that they feel sufficiently compensated.

[willy]

Wow. This really give me a better understanding of the payout structure.

One more question left (I might have asked this question before, sorry):
Is there any competition in this model?

[Nagalim]

The competition is inherent. Of you provide 1 nbt and start absorbing 7500%/day rates, it will show up on the liquidity feeds on your raw.nupool stuff and attract LPs. As others start outing in nbt, your 1 nbt is no longer earning you a huge portion of the daily reward, so you put more liquidity in the pool. The pool quickly reaches the solution where either:
A) All the liquidity you can afford is in the pool
Or B) You have set the ‘interest’ in the config file and your liquidity gets taken down when there are so many participants that you’re barely getting compensated.

[willy]

You have set the ‘interest’ in the config file and your liquidity gets taken down when there are so many participants that you’re barely getting compensated.

This was the point I was having trouble to wrap my head around…
Thanks! I think I finally got it.

Will monitor NuPond closely when the fixed payout structure goes live.

Btw: I guess there are some changes needed for raw.nupool.net. Was the /exchanges response altered accordingly?

{"poloniex": {"btc": {"ask": {"low": 0.003, "high": 0.003, "rate": 0.003, "target": 12500.0, "orders": [[{"amount": 0.21615282203921896, "cost": 0.003}

The values remaining would be
"rate" (payout per minute - 0.0052083 NBT)

and “orders”

[Nagalim]

Here’s the kicker. The only changes I made basically come down to a single line in server.py where I divide the rate by the liquidity provided (the pool still pays 0 nbt if there are no participants on a side). That means my config file is fully intact. If I am correct, you should see a really small number (proportional to 7.5) for rate and a really large number for target (10 million). I was hoping to have the rate be 7.5, but I had some bugs. I’m not completely sure I understand how the liquidity submission process works, but I’m hoping you can derive the current % rate of payout and report that, as well as the constant ppm paid in total to all LPs.

[willy]

constant ppm paid

That depends which value you’re giving. Per month, day, minute, second… Anyhow, it should be easy to calculate through altering this

7.5NBT/day / 1440 min/day = 0.0052083 NBT/min

calculation .

---

As for the current % rate:

I’m not 100% sure how this is calculated… I would need to count all orders together and get all NBT currently on the pool at the moment and just divide the ppm?

[Nagalim]

sure, that would work. The rate is the same for all users in any given minute. An individual user’s rate is their ppm (times 1440) divided by the liquidity that has been credited to them in that minute. Because of the math behind fixed cost:

ppm_individual * 1440 / liquidity_individual = Sum(ppm) * 1440 / Sum(liquidity) = rate in this minute

This is also true for fixed reward, but in a somewhat more trivial sense. Honestly, @willy, I’m pretty sure you won’t need to change anything on your end except the fixed maximum rate which will be many orders of magnitude off and the wrong units (change from %/day to NBT/day). The stuff that really changes every minute should basically remain the same.

[Nagalim]

@CoinGame pin plz ty

[CoinGame]

[huafei]

Can we run the bot now?

[mhps]

The rate is the same for all users in any given minute.

I hope the rate displayed is easy to understand for potential LPs. Something like

0.0052083 NBT/min = X.XXX NBT/day/100NBT_liquidity_provided

the math for X.XXX on the right hand side is

7.5NBT/day / (current_liquidity_provided_for_this_minute_in_NBT / 100)

[JordanLee]

I’m confused why this a motion instead of a grant.

[Nagalim]

Because I don’t need the money yet and I want to separate the fixed cost vote from the home pool grant and the possible hitbtc grant. This motion will increase the requested funds in my home pool grant by 450 NBT and will cause the network to owe me 100 NBT. My home pool grant will continue the trend of CNY/NBT 5,000 NBT on each side at 0.2% rate with a 50 NBT operator fee, which I fully expect to pass. The purpose of the home pool grant as opposed to controversial motions is to provide a set of buffer parameters whereby consensus can be reached between operators and shareholders for the actual grant proposal so the system better resists stalemate.

The setup comes from here:
[Draft] Periodic 90 Day ALP Grant Competition
but the approach is more general than that for this particular motion. I am specifically testing the shareholder support on Fixed Cost Pools in Term 5 of Nupond for the BTC/NBT pair.

@huafei The current server is 45.55.55.197:3333 and I am working on putting it on NuPond.net. Once the motion passes I will smoothly transition all LPs into the fixed cost model with a simple python script restart and manual distribution. Upon achieving shareholder support, nupond adoption will not require any changes to the client by the LPs.

[huafei]

2015/09/29-12:26:31 DEBUG: starting liquidity operation with sampling 80
2015/09/29-12:26:31 INFO: starting PyBot for btc on bter
2015/09/29-12:26:32 INFO: successfully deleted all orders for btc on bter
2015/09/29-12:26:33 INFO: waiting 12.61 seconds to synchronize with other trading bots for btc on bter
2015/09/29-12:27:32 INFO: bter - balance: 0.00000000 rate: 0.00% ppm: 0.00000000 efficiency: 0.00% rejects: 0 missings: 0 - 81C5AE35-21D1-48F3-9F3D-24EA0A303194

download from the github, using client-bter-cny-fix-payout-test.bat, change the cny pool to BTC

[Nagalim]

I definately have you in my logs. Do you have NBT or BTC on Bter? Is the bot putting up orders?

[huafei]

sorry , my bad , only have CNY . exchange into NBT and restart now , it is OK now.

thanks for your help!!

[Nagalim]

I want to be clear here. If shareholders fail to vote for this motion, it will not necessarily defund NuPond on the BTC pair. This motion is specifically aimed at gauging shareholder support for fixed cost pools.

[huafei]

I want to be clear here. If shareholders fail to vote for this motion, it will not necessarily defund NuPond on the BTC pair. This motion is specifically aimed at gauging shareholder support for fixed cost pools.

no payment if fail voting?