[Passed] LiquidBits term 7 (addendum)

[Nagalim]

Something like this:

You set aside $5k on exchange as T2. You run nubot on a nbt/usd pair, promoting $1k to T1. When you run out of usd you send the nbt to T4 who gives you btc that you sell for usd and put back on exchange. You note the efficiency of the operation (i.e. loss or gain on soread) and report it to shareholders. We pay you extra nbt for this service.

We can use a 2-of-3 address for the T4 interaction, like we’re talking about doing with gateways. If we think about it right we dont even have to specify a hard price because it’s all Nu funds. But yah, we’d have to lay down a powerful framework to avoid you getting hit for the loss due to efficiency.

[Dhume]

I don’t really see how that’s different than some other shareholder doing the same apart from already using 5k that’s inside Nusafe. If we’d want this why not send 5k USD worth of BTC to someone offering to operate a Nubot on the desired exchange and have that person perform the same operation? I’m not very keen on using the funds I secured under the terms in which I’m 100% responsible for them on an exchange not of my choosing for T1-2 liquidity operations.

If the question is if I’m willing to operate a Nubot for USD/NBT pair with Nu funds other than those in Nusafe I’m not sure. I’d have to think about it, but not under the same conditions, I don’t want to responsible for exchange default/Nubot malfunction with Nu funds. We’re talking about CCEDK right?

[zoro]

We’re talking about CCEDK right?

Yes, but every NBT/fiat exchange is in our radar like southX

[Nagalim]

Well so the difference would be that you can deposit as fiat directly without having to sell the btc first. When you receive nbt you can send it back to T4. When your fiat reserves run low we can do a single event sale of any of our reserves to refill NuSafe.

You make a very solid point that this is a different model entirely than NuSafe. So let’s go ahead and separate it and work it out as another separate service run by some other shareholder independent of NuSafe (we can talk about possible interactions between this new service and NuSafe later).

So the nubot operator needs fiat. This fiat should come from a reserve held somewhere accessible that is more secure than simply holding it on-exchange. So let’s just go for it and say the fiat is held in a bank account. Deposits to exchange are done via okpay. Withdrawals of nbt go to T4. So then the most important action is the bank deposits, legally speaking. So the problem comes down to how do we turn T4 btc, ppc, or NuSafe funds into a bank deposit legally?

I think i agree that this is running in circles and probably selling btc on-exchange is the most efficient option. The issue there is that we affect the local economy of the exchange when we sell btc, which messes with the local supply and demand of usd, the very unit of account we are trying to peg to.

[crypto_coiner]

Are you seriously expecting that ALP operators need to fund the liquidity operations in advance? Well good luck with finding operators then

I guess i meant i would feel more comfortable with a 1 month grant and more transparent accounting –
ALP-2?

[crypto_coiner]

CCEDK also host our only BKS pairs, that is another reason to support this exchange for now.

To which extent the BKS pairs will disappear if liquidbits loses its funding this term?

[zoro]

server is down

[Cybnate]

There is a more serious issue this time:

Not only this, which goes away after a reset:

2016/03/17-15:21:44 ERROR: exception caught in main loop: list index out of range : list index out of range

But this, which I can’t fix

2016/03/17-12:58:21 WARNING: unable to validate request 1/1 for user at exchange ccedk on unit eur: exception caught: <urlopen error [Errno -2] Name or service not known>

and

could not retrieve ccedk ids, server is unreachable <urlopen error [Errno -2] Name or service not known>

Logging a call with CCEDK

[Cybnate]

This is not good, found the real root cause:

My provider has severe issues:

AMS DNS Connectivity

Thu Mar 17 15:30:29 2016
Our networking team is still investigating issues with Google DNS in our AMS regions. During this time we recommend changing your droplet to another DNS provider, such as OpenDNS. If you need assistance with this, feel free to open a support ticket. We will provide an update as soon as one is available.

Not able to make the DNS changes right now due to other comittments. If problem persists in next 12 hours I will setup another DNS or set up a server in another location.

Recommend to cancel your order manually if required as this outage is likely to take longer. Most order has been cancelled automatically I noticed.
Also the Bittrex and Poloniex bot are no longer functional. The Poloniex order has been cancelled, the Bittrex order is still stuck due to yesterday’s isolated problem on Bittrex.

[masterOfDisaster]

That doesn’t sound very good…
Thank you for all your efforts in supporting liquidity provision in the face of all the trouble!

…at least at Poloniex there are additional liquidity providers:

Thu Mar 17 23:46:12 UTC 2016
status of mOD dual side NuBot at Poloniex:
nud getliquidityinfo B | grep BFGMPykfKxXZ1otrCZcsbnTwJjKHPP9dsP -A 2
        "BFGMPykfKxXZ1otrCZcsbnTwJjKHPP9dsP" : {
            "buy" : 25014.95,
            "sell" : 5809.8706
status of zoro dual side NuBot at Poloniex:
nud getliquidityinfo B | grep BJs4YbtaqCmxeHLiR6zzjnZEotYVFAPfMo -A 2
        "BJs4YbtaqCmxeHLiR6zzjnZEotYVFAPfMo" : {
            "buy" : 11357.41,
            "sell" : 14616.1002
status of Cybnate dual side PyBot at Poloniex:
nud getliquiditydetails B | grep B954pkUEdkeT1G5Lq14Cisij5no3RVxHYe -A 20 | grep poloniex -A 2
        "1:NBTBTC:poloniex:LiquidBits" : {
            "buy" : 0.0,
            "sell" : 0.0
status of NuLagoon dual side NuBot at Poloniex:
nud getliquiditydetails B | grep BTRnV9uLSPVJw4jn1JMV2Ki2cfFqPYip9o -A 100 | grep poloniex -A 2 | tail -n 3
        "1:NBTBTC:poloniex:0.3.2a_1457865931788_81cb7a" : {
            "buy" : 14.2199,
            "sell" : 3150.5138

From my NuBot:

23:45:15.121 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - **SELL** orders re-initialized on  **poloniex** :  3/3 placed successfully
total amount placed : 5809.87063002
Tier1 order size : 1500.0
Tier2 cumulative order size : 4309.87063002 (2 orders)
 [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:246]
23:45:16.687 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
23:45:46.688 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
23:46:16.692 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
23:46:26.808 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order placed = OrderToPlace{type=SELL, pair=nbtbtc, size=1500.0, price=0.00243909} [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:88]
23:46:26.812 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order ID = 2002598459
 [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:89]
23:46:26.816 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order placed = OrderToPlace{type=SELL, pair=nbtbtc, size=1574.97126, price=0.00245103} [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:88]
23:46:26.819 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order ID = 2002599458
 [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:89]
23:46:26.822 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order placed = OrderToPlace{type=SELL, pair=nbtbtc, size=2734.89937002, price=0.00295556} [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:88]
23:46:26.825 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Order ID = 2002600457
 [com.nubits.nubot.models.MultipleOrdersResponse:89]
23:46:26.828 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - initOrders BUY [com.nubits.nubot.strategy.Secondary.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:177]
23:46:32.608 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - Putting a cap on BUY liquidity available. [Total Balance  : 59.76287365 BTC ; capped @  14.33349259 BTC] [c.n.n.t.L.LiquidityDistributionModel:85]
23:46:32.632 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - BUY- OrderBook : ----- BUY-side order book :
0.979001,0.00233875,1500.0
0.974003,0.00232681,1574.97126
0.775205,0.0018519,2925.02873817
BUY wall volume : 1500.0
BUY tier2 volume = 4499.99999817 NBT
Total BUY volume = 5999.99999817 NBT
Best price :0.00233875 (0.9790007500000001$)
BUY balance left = 19016.73891172 NBT-----  [com.nubits.nubot.strategy.Secondary.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:227]
23:46:32.636 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - Trying to place 3 orders... [com.nubits.nubot.strategy.Secondary.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:228]
23:46:32.948 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - BUY wall order updated. ID : 2002601456 size: 1500.0 [com.nubits.nubot.trading.TradeUtils:231]
23:46:33.869 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - **BUY** orders re-initialized on  **poloniex** :  3/3 placed successfully
total amount placed : 5999.99999817
Tier1 order size : 1500.0
Tier2 cumulative order size : 4499.99999817 (2 orders)
 [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:246]
23:46:46.688 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
23:47:16.687 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
23:47:22.471 [sendLiquidity] WARN  - Liquidity is not being sent, a wall shift is happening. Will send on next execution. [c.n.n.t.SubmitLiquidityinfoTask:152]

[Cybnate]

Not able to make the DNS changes right now due to other committments.

Update: Have made the DNS changes (workaround) and restarted the server. It is now successfully resolving again. Syncing Nu daemon underway. Services restarted in next 15 minutes or so when syncing is complete.

My apologies for the delay in fixing this provider related issue and thanks for your patience.

The issue with the Bittrex order being unable to be placed by PyBot hasn’t been solved yet and appears to be unrelated to the above.

[masterOfDisaster]

The issue with the Bittrex order being unable to be placed by PyBot hasn’t been solved yet

It seems that NuBot suffers from a similar problem; order’s can be placed, but not initilized, which prevents the liquidity information from being broadcast - at least that’s my interpretation:

07:12:22.982 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - Strategy received a price change notification. [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegTask:162]
07:12:41.733 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
07:13:11.734 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
07:13:37.828 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - Shift needed on **bittrex** - Reason : 3 minutes elapsed since last shift [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegTask:199]
07:13:37.834 [priceTriggerTask] WARN  - Cannot shift walls, orders are being reinitiated. Price is already adjusted. [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegUtils:296]
07:13:37.840 [priceTriggerTask] ERROR - Wall shift failed [c.n.n.s.S.StrategySecondaryPegTask:208]
07:13:37.857 [priceTriggerTask] INFO  - New price computed [Fri Mar 18 07:13:37 UTC 2016,bitfinex,BTC,415.55,USD,0.00244928,0.00236434,] [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.PriceMonitorTriggerTask:477]
07:13:41.733 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
07:14:11.734 [checkNud] INFO  - Executing class com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask [com.nubits.nubot.tasks.CheckNudTask:37]
07:14:17.944 [sendLiquidity] WARN  - Liquidity is not being sent : orders are not yet initialized [c.n.n.t.SubmitLiquidityinfoTask:147]

I tired to bypass the streaming server, but that didn’t help; will enable the streaming server for NuBot again.

[Cybnate]

I suspect the issue is indeed a wider issue. Have also been trying workarounds to no avail. Have just given Bittrex support another nudge.

[Cybnate]

Bump. Can use a few more votes on this in order to ensure there are enough funds to continue LiquidBits till the intended end date. See OP for the details. Thanks.

[Cybnate]

This grant just passed but…something is wrong.

I haven’t received the funds into my wallet!

Upon first investigation I learned that this address has been used before which is unusual:
https://blockexplorer.nu/address/BCigRTj8Lg25xSZLW59eUwuszw8nuPAubs/1/newest
I can’t recall it was by me, but not impossible. I’m tracing this down and will sync/repair my wallets just to be sure.
The wallet address does appear in my wallet. Checked it three times by now and compared with block explorer.
Wallet version used Nu 2.1.0 RC8, syncing on 2.0 now.

[Cybnate]

Wallet is still syncing, but this gets more disturbing.

I can’t find the transactions in the blockexplorer in my wallet and don’t recognise them as mine either. Most of them are from Sept-2015. Not sure what is going on here, but it more and more appears to me that there is another wallet out there since Sept-2015 not in my control with this address. The address have been used for payouts in ALPs a number of times including one payout from LiquidBits and several from Nu-Pool.

This specific NBT wallet with this address contains more addresses with balances and if compromised would have been likely emptied by now, so this is very strange. Can use some tips or ideas on what might have happened here awaiting another wallet being synced. Have I been stupid somehow?

I might have been stupid, it looks more like I picked an address from the address-book instead of from the ‘receiving payments’…

[Cybnate]

Right, I’m fronting up here, I messed up hugely here. Mea Culpa. The good thing is that my wallet is not compromised.
The bad thing is that I indeed picked an address from my addressbook instead of addresses for receiving payment by accident. The only thing I can hope that this a major lesson learnt for me and others asking for grants or providing addresses to get paid, will check twice.

I will fund LiquidBits operation myself till the end date of current operations. Not sure how to justify the remaining missing funds to the Shareholders. Maybe I should burn the remainder to make good on this unforgivable mistake. Any suggestions are welcome.

…and maybe someone recognises the address as theirs and still have the wallet in their control, just maybe…

[masterOfDisaster]

If It’s only about money, there’s no such thing as unforgivable mistakes.

It went quite bad, agreed. But if you want to find out what NSR holders think about that and if you intend to continue LiquidBits (which supports more than one fiat pair!), I suggest you put another grant up for voting.

I dare say Nu has lost more money than this for worse return - given another grant passes.

p.s. I checked the address. Unfortunately it’s not my old liquidbits ALP address. That would have made it easy…

[Cybnate]

It went quite bad, agreed

Not feeling fit for purpose with this one. First the mistake in the calculation and then subsequently the address error. The best excuse I have is that I was under too much pressure at work apparently neglecting Nu at the time this happened. The workload goes up and down and is hard to manage other than getting another job.

I suggest you put another grant up for voting.

Given how painful it was to have it passed and my messing up on top of it, I elect to fund this myself. I have to assess whether I should continue afterwards in the next few days. I’m lacking time to dig into ALPv2 and not feeling I will be ready before the current term expires in about 3-4 weeks time.

p.s. I checked the address. Unfortunately it’s not my old liquidbits ALP address. That would have made it easy…

Thanks for checking anyway. Hope someone else discovers that they suddenly have 990 NBT more than before and are so honest to return the funds to myself. In case someone want to do that anonymous, the address is B954pkUEdkeT1G5Lq14Cisij5no3RVxHYe. Checked it twice. It is the current payout address for LiquidBits which can be verified, as it has daily transactions in the blockchain.

[masterOfDisaster]

Not feeling fit for purpose with this one.

Either way of naming it won’t change what happened.

The best excuse I have

Sometimes explanations are more valuable than excuses

I elect to fund this myself.

I see no way of stopping you from doing that.

I’m lacking time to dig into ALPv2 and not feeling I will be ready before the current term expires in about 3-4 weeks time.

It would be a pity to lose LiquidBits this way…

are so honest to return the funds

That would be a nice move that could earn the honest person so much karma, which we all know is more valuable than money!

I’m just trying to remove some gravity from this topic. It really went pear-shaped, but I still say: Nu did lose more money - or should I say did waste more money? - on other endeavours.
Don’t take it that hard.
Mistakes happen.
Some think that if they don’t do anything, they can’t do anything wrong.
But very often not doing anything is the most wrong thing one can do.
And if you do things, sometimes they go wrong…